Dynojet Power Run...before DNA Airbox
 

Had my very recently bought 2008 XTR dyno'd today, it only had 120 miles on the clock when I bought it, so I now have 700 odd miles on the clock (still feels tight) but supposedly run-in.

Anyway, standard bike and tyres, strapped on front wheel only, 28.6 deg. C, 1035MBARS 10% humidity

42.8 hp
40.57 ft lbs.

Will return with CCC cans baffles in, Power Commander 111 usb, Stage 3 DNA Airbox shortly.

I love a bike with about as much torque as HP!!

Thats the way to check the gain with a before & after. Here was my result with the exact same setup as you.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...evxtx/1-38.jpg

Kev, my torque at 6100rpm 36.34lbs/ft

Also, where do we want the A/F baseline.....i think from one of the many threads , around 13.2? Any other tips? I now have the results emailed to me, so should you wish, i can forward them on to you......they are in "figure" form, not graph.

My "standard bike" is totally un-fiddled with, I have fitted the PC111 but it has not been plugged in yet. I run the 97Ron Super Unleaded though, instead of 95Ron. And not supermarket fuel, but Esso/Shell/Elf etc. At the higher revs (6400rpm) it was running 12.5 AF , lower revs (2800rpm) around 16.5

Don't worry to much about the readings between yours & my readings, it is the gains I always look at from a before & after run, as every dyno reads differently.

I set my A/F ratio around 13.2:1 for best performance.

I run two maps in my PCIII, one map set at 13.2:1 best performance & the other at 13.2:1 below 3000rpm & 13.8:1 above 3250rpm for town riding better fuel consumption, I can switch between the maps at any stage while riding.

Make sure your AIS is blocked off when on the dyno otherwise the A/F ratio will be wrong.

Thanks Kev

I've been trying to find a stock bike AF reading, to see by how much my bike is richer than with 95Ron...

I like your idea of an "economy" and "power" map....i can use the economy one for the trip to the IOM TT races next year....:023:

My 09 XTX completely standard ranged between 13.6 to 14:3 on 95 Ron Fuel with O2 sensor connected. Disconnect the O2 senor & it can run down to 12:1.

Thanks...I will be fitting the Kawasaki O2 eliminator, and blocking the AIS pipe. I hope this is correct.

If the airbox arrives tomorrow, it will be fitted early week.

The way I have understood things, it is not recommended to use the existing O2 eliminators because they do not work properly. It will disable the O2 sensor, and it will keep the warning light from going on, BUT it will cause the ECU to fallback to a fixed map that is to rich for XT:s (during cruising conditions, which is when the ECU considers the O2 sensor values): the same thing that would happen if you just disconnect the O2 sensor.

Kev or anyone else, please correct me if I still don't understand things correctly.

yep...thats how i understood it too.......but then Correct the map and it should be better. (??)

Well that sounds logical to me, I don't understand why that shouldn't be possible... :017:

There's an issue on these bikes with mapping them once they've reached a certain temperature, in that its next to impossible because the ECU switches modes.

I was thinking Kev...

You say that it switches from closed/open when the O2 sensor is disconnected with and without an O2 eliminator.

What about when the O2 sensor is connected, does it still do it then?

Furthermore, if say I was to cross a couple of wires from my autotune to the O2 sensor plug so that the ecu is getting an O2 reading, would that make any difference?

From the tests I did lately I found on my 11 ECU, the O2 eliminator made no difference connected or disconnect to the A/F ratio when the O2 sensor was disconnected.

This may sound daft Kev...probably due to a lack of knowledge, but here goes...


Surely, if the O2 sensor was removed from its location, and put into a "sealed environment" (cover the whole thing in something that would not allow heat/air in) and the hole blocked off, but stayed connected, the ecu wouldnt switch mode, it would stay in one of those circuits?
Would throttle position affect it? If so, would it be possible to tell the sensor it was, for example, on a low throttle position, by changing the throttle reading...hmmm..this is getting too technical..

Forgive me if it sounds like gibberish!!

Anyway, back to the thread......According to UPS Couriers online tracking, the DNA airbox is arriving today, and a friend whom I told about what I was doing, has volunteered to keep me company (read "give me a hand") later, to fit the airbox and Cans, and block the AIS.. The PC111 is already fitted, just needs setting up. So....I'll keep you posted when its up and running, and then when it returns to the Dyno hopefully later this week.....

[quote=richardsracingmad;133660]This may sound daft Kev...probably due to a lack of knowledge, but here goes...


Surely, if the O2 sensor was removed from its location, and put into a "sealed environment" (cover the whole thing in something that would not allow heat/air in) and the hole blocked off, but stayed connected, the ecu wouldnt switch mode, it would stay in one of those circuits? If the O2 sensor is removed & is still connected it will give the ECU the incorrect A/F ratio reading, this will throw the CLOSED LOOP mapping all over the place.
Would throttle position affect it? Throttle position effects the open & closed loop circuits, once the coolant temp reaches 70 C. If so, would it be possible to tell the sensor it was, for example, on a low throttle position, NO by changing the throttle reading...hmmm..this is getting too technical..

Forgive me if it sounds like gibberish!!

Anyway, back to the thread......According to UPS Couriers online tracking, the DNA airbox is arriving today, and a friend whom I told about what I was doing, has volunteered to keep me company (read "give me a hand") later, to fit the airbox and Cans, and block the AIS.. The PC111 is already fitted, just needs setting up. So....I'll keep you posted when its up and running, and then when it returns to the Dyno hopefully later this week Looking forward to the results.

Sorry Kev...I'll try to stick to the thread!!! But thanks for the answers!!

I'm wearing a groove in the hallway floor..................:blob7:

The thread is yours so ask away.

I have spent a few years studying how the XT660 ECU's work & how they are programed, the only one I have not got my hands on is the XTZ's ECU.

so theres no chance of doing something like what I said earlier?

with running some wires from the autotune wideband sensor to the O2 sensor plug on the bikes loom?

What'd that do to the bike?

Haven't tried it, you are the only person that I know who has a Auto Tune on a XT660. Wire it up & let us know how it works.

does that make me special?


:drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool:: drool::drool::drool::drool::drool:

Yes. As im schpeshall :P

But let us know how you get on !

Update, we have removed all the components to fit the airbox, plus a bit more, as I am cleaning up the bike and covering it in AF50 protectant, while everything is off.

By the way, the airbox will still come out of the back of the bike (without removing the rear wheel) on a XTR, (which I assume has a slightly greater rear wheel circumference due to the XTR Tourance tyre??).

So tonight its going back together.....

You can also get the standard air box out on the XTX without removing the wheel, but can't get the DNA in on the XTX, that's why I removed the lower link bolt to lower the rear wheel, easier than removing the rear wheel.

Any photo's?

Hi Kev, we did a trial fit, the DNA airbox will go in with the lower link removed on a 2008 XTR with Tourance tyres, so no problems there...

Also, with regards to PDF2 "If your Air box mounting bolts do not line up" you obviously had one of the first airboxs'. They now have shims already fitted and supplied.

Can someone tell me how to load images? I'm sure its been asked before, but I can't find it, plus when I do a "search forum" for anything, it never works.

Anyway, pm for you Kev...

PM returned.

Upload photo's

http://www.xt660.com/showthread.php?t=10380

Update, we had a couple of hours this evening, so we finished AF50'ing and cleaning, fitted the DNA Airbox, and did a trial fit on the new cans.. http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/a...d/IMG_0873.jpg
The Airboxes now come with shims on the main inlet, as XT660 frames are not identical, and you may need to do a trial fit, remove it, and shim it up so that it fits the chassis and sits on the intake flange nicely..the shims are the white washers shown here.. http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/a...d/IMG_0878.jpg and here....... http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/a...d/IMG_0879.jpg
This is a view of the inlet flange which has to be butted up nicely either end...... http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/a...d/IMG_0880.jpg
Now refitting everything..... http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/a...d/IMG_0883.jpg http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/a...d/IMG_0884.jpg http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/a...d/IMG_0881.jpg http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/a...d/IMG_0886.jpg http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/a...d/IMG_0885.jpg

So, it all back together and nice and clean and protected too! Nothing happening tomorrow night, but the night after its "Get the Cans On, and if we have time (its not my garage!!) "Get the PC111 connected"

Nice work mate. Just reposition the main wiring loom to loosen off the tension on the air temp wiring.

I was hoping to get my bike up and running tonight...unfortunately I cant get at it! The guy who has the garage is sick....So, I hope to get it back to my place tomorrow and get it up and running...dyno booked for Saturday with the DNA Stage 3 , Cans, PC 111...........DAMN...i had "work work"tomorrow morning........................................... ............................hey.....:eusa_dance: i think its another day off work:eusa_dance::eusa_dance::eusa_dance:

So... any comments about DNA's service and quality so far? :hae18:

It arrived in a custom printed carton, with a nifty folder with instructions, CD of maps, Air Flow charts, stickers etc. Also spare bolts and screws (nice touch) along with the bolts, neatly labelled and bagged, needed for installation. Even a little tub of rubber lube included.
Clearly, it is a top quality bit of kit - not something knocked together in a garden shed! For instance, I love the moulded rubber/ laser cut sides,..you can see that alot of thought has gone into the design.
I used the DNA fitting instructions which are good, and all you need. (if you are not that mechanically minded, Kev has done some really detailed instructions with photos in PDF format, which you will find in the DNA Stage 3 advert on this forum) and it was easy to install.

DNA's customer service is second to none,(...up there with Amazon!), they use UPS couriers so you can track your item online. They acknowledged my order and sent it to me double-quick, it arrived really well packed and bang on time. Yep, I'm really really pleased with it.

DNA are the best, thanks guys!!!:YouRock:

She's running..... WOW!....and WOW!!!

DNA Stage 3, Carbon Cans, Power Commander 111, AIS Blocked.

Loads of grunt, say when you're doing 80 in fifth..open the gas and you're doing 106 no sweat!!! WOOOOAH....!!!!!!

I went up Bury Hill, changed up to fifth, and it pulled really strongly from 53mph, accelerating really strongly. (DIDNT DO THAT BEFORE......) Fab,.

It feels like a big bore kit, still really comfy, just alot more OOOMPH!!

Really, really pleased with my conversion.....however it does need setting up as I am running Super Unleaded, and I think its running too rich/overfuelling because it has stalled several times, when on a low and part/half throttle, big-bang backfires (quite a few times....wadding coming out of silencers!!) and cut out, and especially the "lower end of mid-range" punch just isnt there (the same as before). Maybe I started with the wrong map (its all new to me and not good with computers!) I set it on the DNA map 660 open Ackro's.( I HOPE...MAYBE NOTHING LOADED!!!) Should have tried the Standard map.

I think a dyno (booked tomorrow) will really be the nuts (i'm not playing with other maps on the DNA CD, which I could of course, but as a dyno is booked tomorrow, why bother?). I betcha its an easy 7bhp, and 6ft/lbs torque gain. Easy. It just feels like an XT800!!!

But anyway, for today, at the top end revs...its a flying machine.............Woooooah!!!! It gets you up and over the magic ton SO much quicker!!!!!!! (not that I do those speeds on my trialie).....keep you posted on the Dyno results, and how much better/smoother it runs........

Another happy customer :Gangsta2_9BI664:

:clap: :clap:

Looking forward to you posting the map so people with a similar set up can give it a try

I have had my DNA Stage 3 on my XTR since Jan 2010 (I think I was #3).

How many people do you know who spend MORE $$ (than the DNA S3) on an aftermarket exhaust that rarely does anything for performance?

Then they cringe when they see the cost of the S3!!! Go figure!!

Example in NZ : Leo Vince exhaust $NZ1600ish. My S3, $NZ930ish.

Anyway, I just wanted to add to richardsracingmad's approval of this mod.

I should say right here and now that I don't have shares in DNA but I do believe that this is the best thing that anyone can do to increase the riding pleasure of their XT660.

One last point - I haven't even optimised my S3 (like this guy) by using a PC3 but I am still well pleased with the outcome.

I love my stage 3 airbox, in my eyes it is well worth the money for the gains it gives.

Of course I will share my map.... I don't have Paypal, so will use a friends account to join "XT Supporters". I think that should be the next priority! But you could pm me with your email addy.

After alot of initial confusion and then understanding how it works (big thanks to Kev - who has answered ALOT of silly PM'S from me) - I have decided to leave the O2 Sensor on and connected for the dyno.(please note- that was my own decision) Depending on how we go for time on the dyno, we may try it removed. Also, my own decision to run Super Unleaded, 97 Ron.


But yes, this really is a good mod for an XT. I think it will be like a KTM Duke performance, without having to live with a KTM Duke!

And my little DRZ400, which was a lovely bike, would have been wheezing at 85mph, it maxed at 95mph. It vibrated more, but was more of an offroad than an onroad bike.

So, as far as cost goes, My 2008 XTR with 120 miles was �3300. I have added near-as �1000 mods, = �4300. And its near enough a brand new bike. Now have a look at which "slim" traillie you can buy for �4300, and I think you could rule out the more serious, vibrating Husa, Verte, KTM, Husky, ...I still think I have got a great performing bike, for a great price!!

What's more, the big thing is, "it's still a bike thats easy to live with". And the mods I have done are just bolt on, all easily reversable to standard spec.

Smiles per miles - thats what it's about !

Dyno Power Run...after DNA Airbox
 

Its running Sweeeeeeeet! Sounds like one of those automatic-rapid fire machine guns....with NO hiccups!!! She just pulls and pulls!!!!

At first glance, the results are not what I hoped for......but give a bit of understanding, as unfortunately it wasn't a "like for like" before and after Dyno.......I haven't got the time tonight, as I'm off out in a mo... but this is our best reading today at 32+C degrees....49.01 bhp....47.00 lbs torque....with No Correction on the dyno for the temp/humity etc....more detail later, but BOY! am I happy with the pull and the new grunt my bike has....and she behaves with that god-awful low down surge too, almost non -existant!!!! She's a flyer!!!!!...............more later.... love my XT!!xx
( ...hence the late report, just bin ridin'....lol)

Well...Dyno-man did over 30 runs with my bike, so there's alot to say... best leave it till t'morning as I've had a night out......but i'm dead chuffed with it now!!!!!

Very nice gain, don't worry about the final HP & Torque readings on paper, as mentioned before every dyno reads differently, the gains are what we want to measure. An extra 6.21 HP & 6.43 Torque just under a 15% GAIN, you got to be happy with that.

I have not met a rider that does not like the stage 3 air box, every one of us have a smile every time we ride out bikes.

Any back to back print outs on the dyno run. Did you by any chance get the dyno runs on a pen drive as I would love a copy to study your runs?

Pen drive? I don't know what that is...but I asked for the figs. to be e-mailed.

Dyno with DNA Stage 3, Carbon Cans, PC111, AIS Blocked, O2 Sensor fitted and connected, 97Ron.

A 2 and a half hour session.32.23 deg C, 1033 MBars,Humidity 8%,Uncorrected, Smoothing 2.

My AF ratio he was aiming for was 13.9:1.

The best Peak horsepower we got was at the start of the session from the DNA map 660 Open Ackros,which was the map I had loaded, where we got 45.17, 47.83, 47.56, 49.01. However the AF was around 16:1 and at peak power 16.5:1.
Best run 49.01hp 46.54 ft lbs

He also then tried the DNA 660 Standard cans map on the CD. Again good figures but the AF was much much better, AF peak was at 3500 15.7:1, but from 5000 to 7000+ was running around the 14:1.
Best run 48.40 hp 47 ft lbs.

Then he made a map for me. He did the different throttle settings power runs, and we got a best run of 47.83 hp (5hp Gain) 46.57 ft lbs(6 ft/lbs Gain) on my new map. The AF is very similar to the DNA Standard cans, but just that bit better/ lower, but at 3500 revs, and also 2250revs running AF Peak to 15:1. AF Low 11.9:1 at 2300revs. (see my AF ratios at bottom of post) The weird thing (meaning great thing), is that my torque figure is almost the same as my HP figure, unlike Kevs maps.

Summary. The bike feels wonderful, but the dyno doesn't show the figures I thought it would. ........but I think I would rather it that way round than the other!!

Kev, do you think that my AF ratio of 13.9:1 target on my map is a little conservative? I would be very interested to know what your AF ratio readings were on the 2 DNA maps, Standard Cans, and Open Ackros. ( to see if my AF readings are sound)
You say you have an "economy" map 13.8:1, but a "power" map at 13.2:1 ??
Here are my AF figures on my new map...3000 13.9, 3500 15, 4000 14.1, 4500 14.4, 5000 14.2, 5500 13.9, 6000 13.6, 6500 14, 7000 14.
Also, I can't understand why my very best HP figure was at an AF of 16.5:1 = 49.01hp?? And the second best HP figure of the day 13.6:1= 48.4hp?? I thought a richer mixture = more power??

If you would like to see my map Kev, tell me how to do it and PM me.

Richard,

It's most likely because of the problem with these ECU's and mapping.

if you see here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwTfuwZZ848

This is one of Kev's videos of the AFR that he recorded with his wideband commander.

It's because of this, and the fact that above 2500rpm and 70 degrees coolant temperature that these bikes cannot be mapped correctly to gain an ideal AFR.

Kev has found a solution for this and I can say myself that it works, but its not without a little ingenuity and requires further work and 'lightening' so to speak. Dynojet are also aware of Kevs findings.

I dare not say anymore for fear of a shafting from Kev, however, rest assured that what you've come across there with the weird AFR's and so on is not uncommon and currently, is the norm!

Ideally, you do not want to go past 14.7:1 AFR because that is the stoichiometric ratio for petrol, however running richer makes the most of the engine, especially an engine thats allowed to breathe! Anything above that could possibly cause damage to the engine because when an engine runs lean, it runs hotter and has the potential to melt pistons!!
It's unlikely, but possible.

Dynojet themselves recommend for economy an AFR of around 13.8 and for power between 12.8 and 13.2.

I myself have my autotune set to 13.2 with it set on learn mode but wont be able to do much more untill I get a permanent O2 sensor Fix.