Don't get me wrong, I love my xt but I wonder what another 10-15bhp would be like. The gains in decent bhp increase are too costly for me, I've got a stage 1 filter and removed the snorkel and its made a slight difference. I like the idea of new exhausts from the weight saving point of view as much as any bhp increase.

I agree with ya, but, 10-15HP normally comes with Higher Compression, less oil capacity, Lighter Frame and bike, no cush drive, alot of vibration etc.....

I owned a KTM690SM for a few months earlier this year because, like you, I wondered what an extra 10-15hp would be like.

In a word (for me at least)...horrible. I should have known this before, but I again realised very quickly that the charm of the single is in the relaxing manner it makes it's power, and the low-down torque delivery. To get that extra 10-15hp from the KTM you have to be constantly wringing it's neck over 5000rpm and, when it drops below 4000rpm, it's chain-snatch time. For me, the extra 4-9hp gain from the Stage 1/2 or the Stage 3 is just right. In future, if I thought I wanted more than that, I would buy a different bike. Just my 02c worth, I'm sure there will be other points of view.

I love my thread, it has had over 1000 views now!!, and some really good points, comments, helpfulness, information, discussion, points of view....what more could you want?:038:

Thanks to all contributors.....:038:, and thanks for being such a good bunch XT660.com:038::038::038:

Probably the best forum...in the World.

Ok here is your fuel map loaded in to my PCIII with the exact same mods.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QySYSDHBblc

Here is your log table in detail for this run.

Device Log 3

http://www.4shared.com/document/1gjaBhZX/Device_Log_3.html

Basically this tells me your fuel map is to rich for my bike with the exact same mods. I was data logging peak hour traffic so don't have a complete rev range A/F ratio data log.

Kev, thank you very much for trying my map on your bike.

You have proven that my AF figures are out.....if your bike is running rich, my bike is running even richer!! (as I am running a richer fuel, 97Ron)
But my AF figures say my bike is running too lean!!Doh!!

Well, I am looking forward to the Dyno on Saturday, if I don't gain any more HP, at least it will be using less fuel..........

UPDATE... I have taken my bike back to the Dyno and left it with them, I will be collecting it on Tuesday, as they are closed on Mondays.

On the runs they did last Saturday, the AF fluctuated 3 points (between 16.5:1 and 13.5:1) at peak power , 6000rpm, on different runs. It just doesn't seem right. (And I just hope it is not the fact that I am running 97Ron petrol that is upsetting the ECU/ O2 Sensor as well).
I'm sure it was just the way their machine took the readings which was wrong.

So, we'll have to wait until Tuesday to find out....

Well, if you watch Kev's video on youtube, you can see that the AFR Fluctuates between 13.8 and 11.8 because of this O2 sensor problem.

Maybe thats what you're seeing?

hi Daz,
I can see fluctuations on all the maps, its the parameters that are all out. Even at 7000 rpm I have a 3 point difference in AF.......between the first runs , and the last runs.

i think the Vid was more for you, than for me Daz!!! but it was really useful to me.....

Sorry mate, I meant the video I linked like much earlier in the thread, of when Kev video'd his own XTX and the AFR ratio dipping every 10 seconds for turning off the O2 sensor.

You'll find the Powercommander on the dyno will see this and over compensate giving you a map thats all over the show which could be what you're seeing.

Daz....its at all throttle openings........not just under 20% throttle..

I was under the impression that the O2 sensor only reads between 2500 and 6000rpm? which is where the O2 sensor problem lies which is surely more than 20% throttle?

I could be mistaken however.

go back to page 6, 9th post down...i believe your post with a link.....lol

Indeed I am mistaken!



Sorry :mbounce:

I give up...


I can't do it :Christo_pull_hair: :Christo_pull_hair: :Christo_pull_hair: :Christo_pull_hair:



I've got the mod made up here on a proper board now and when I try it on a 3.7V battery, it works and you can visually see it working because of an LED I've added to it.

But when I attach it to the bike which is 4.92v, where more is better, it doesn't.

Even in the simulations I've ran on the computer it works flawlessly.

I've worked on this every spare minute of my evenings I've had this week till near 11 - 12 o'clock and some evenings not eating because I've been so busy with it.

Something just isn't right and I can't work it out :Christo_pull_hair:


Edit:

Bah, One of the wires on my mod just came off and it still did the same thing, so it's actually... NOT working as expected on my desk :(

Mate I think we need to keep our little O2 eliminator project out of this thread so we don't confuse things.

Just to enlighten everyone, I have found a way to turn off the O2 sensor on my 09 XTX & can map the bike perfectly with no surging problems, dazmatic has confirmed this by testing this mod for me on his XTX with O2 sensor.

Everyone in the tunning industry is trying to tune the closed loop circuit with O2 simulators or Eliminators, I have taken a different approach by turning off the closed loop circuit so the ECU only runs on the open loop with no O2 sensor.

I have made a the device that can turn off the circuit completely with relays & switch's but is to complicated for the average rider to wire up himself, dazmatic is helping me make an electronic version so we can reduce the amount of wiring & connections, so stay tunned we might have something new that know one has done before.

yeah, sorry bud.

I think when you two have cracked the 02 sensor, it will merit your own thread...... (try a much lower voltage!)......and get off my thread!!!!!!!

Results of my third Dyno session.

DNA Stage 3 Airbox, PC111, CCC.

I now have all the figures from my three dyno sessions all on one sheet, with the same Correction Factors. I am now using these figures below........

As a reminder, at my first dyno my bike was Standard, except for a Power Commander.

Dyno session 1. Result. 42.32 hp 40.73 ft/lbs. A/F 12.25 @ 6000rpm

My second visit was with the Airbox, DNA "Open Ackro" Map, CCC Exhausts, PC111.

Dyno session 2. Result. 47.18 hp 44.80 ft/lbs. A/F 16.5 @ 6000rpm

Now with my "custom map"...

46.24 hp 45.02 ft/lbs. A/F 13.9 @ 6000rpm


My third visit, as I wasn't happy with the results and "gains" above, they kindly offered to have another look at it, without charge to me, and I asked them to set the A/F at 13.2:1.

Dyno session 3. Result. 44.87 hp 42.43 ft/lbs. A/F 13.2 @6000rpm.


So.....I STILL AM VERY CONFUSED!!!!! AND STILL NOT HAPPY WITH THE RESULT!!!!
(A GAIN OF ONLY 2.5 HP/ 1.7 FT/LBS FROM MY "STANDARD BIKE" !!!!

Well, from other figures quoted I should be on a "Gain" of around 7 hp, 6 ft/lbs torque, from a Standard bike, and a A/F Ratio of around 13.2:1 is supposed to be the ideal area, but CLEARLY, not in my case!! (my bike produced the most power at an Air/Fuel ratio of 16.5:1)

Either there is something wrong with my bike, or the dyno A/F figures are wrong.

SO.....I have phoned Dynojet UK, and they are going to study all the Run Files, and get back to me. I just hope there is nothing wrong with my bike, its only done 900 miles! And I hope that we will end up (eventually) with a nice and juicy "gain".........the saga continues.......

Keep us posted. I hope you'll get the results you should have!

Could it be that the engine hasn't loosened up properly yet.

I don't suppose theres any error codes in the ECU?

I only ask because if there are, it'd set some default values in and may screw with the fuelling.

I'd say at 900 miles the engine is not loose yet. Its take a couple of thousand miles from my own experiences.

I agree its probably not run-in yet, but its the A/F Ratios that puzzle me....

I should still get the same "gain" from the mods even if the motor is still not loosened up though, - surely?

Hi Daz...I haven't had the ECU checked for fault codes.....

Theres a good article in the latest superbike magazine. They take an S1000R to six different dynos and each one is different. There is a 13bhp difference between the highest and lowest reading. The article goes in to a fair bit of detail which may explain some of your concerns.

I would take the bike to a different dyno center, as I have never seen a XT660 produce the best peak HP at 16:1, something is wrong.

The dyno center said you A/F ratio was running at 16:1 on the fuel map you sent me, I tested it on my bike with the exact same mods & I was running around the 12:1, so something is up.

No 2 dynos will read the same, that is why when carring out mods you do a before & after run & measure the gains on the same dyno, the A/F should read simular from dyno to dyno.

Kev, the map you tried was a "modified" DNA Map Open Ackros. My custom map. (i.e. I came into the Dyno with this DNA Map loaded on my bike, and left the Dyno with the same map, but modified BELOW 40% Throttle, BELOW 4000rpm)

If I remember correctly, when you tested it, you gave me a figure of 100% throttle 5500rpm AF 13.1 on your bike,(perfect!), but on my bike it was 13.9:1 at the end of my dyno, and 16:1 at the start of that session. (remember...un-altered except BELOW 4000rpm).

Kev, now at 100% throttle 5500rpm, my "new revised" map is showing bang-on 13.2:1. (so if your AF readings, taken from your test are 0.8 of a point different at 5500rpm, I would assume that it would now read 12.4:1 on yours). And that would explain why I am 2hp down, from my best figures so far, at those revs.

It has been difficult for me to compare the lower throttle openings to your bike, as my O2 sensor plays havoc at the lowest openings, whereas you don't have an O2 Sensor. But yes, your bike was showing around 12:1 lower down.
Thank you Kev, for testing it for me. (I hope you will eventually be rewarded with a decent map for your bike, on 97ron ...if it ever comes mate!)

It cost me �180 Kev, for an initial power run and a custom map, so it is going to a very expensive move going to another dyno. And difficult to get a refund.

If you see my post above with the results, I have lost power the closer-down it gets to 13.2:1. Therefore, I believe that the AF readings are roughly reading 1 to 2 points out. (i.e. when it reads 14 it is only really 13 or 12.)........I think my best "gain" on their dyno is around their figures ABOVE 14:1.

I'm hoping Dynojet UK will get to the bottom of this problem, (it is an "Approved" Dynojet Centre) and then I can take it back to the same dyno, get it set up properly, hopefully without paying any more. I believe it is a fault with the dyno,or AF reading equipment, rather than my bike, and I will add that the Dyno Centre have been very good about my doubts, even though they think that I'm wrong.

Are there any bike shops that do free runs in your area, theres one near me that do them on a tuesday night to drum up business. Even if there aren't it might be worth going to another one and paying the �30 odd to get another reading.

Great idea, .....but I am not paying anymore!!!! �180 is alot to pay already.
I know a dealer in your area does free power runs on Tuesday evenings....who is it? It would still be about a 150 mile round trip for me...

Maybe if Dynojet UK can make an arrangement with another, more local, dyno to do a "free of charge" power run for me, then I will.

Bloody Hell!

Something is wrong with their dyno then :headhack:

hi Daz...

you could say i'm getting a bit fed up with it all.

.............but i will add that my bike STILL has alot more top-end UMPHHHHH than it did when "Standard".....

I once had free dyno time when a friend had his own dyno, I managed to do many tests on 90% of the XT660 mods.

These days I have to pay like you, that is why I bought a Wide band Commander 1, http://www.widebandcommander.com/ I can build a perfect fuel map for my bike no matter what mod I add to the bike for free. I can spend as much time as I want to perfect the map under real riding conditions.

kev...could you just look at the 100% column and compare with my earlier dyno map..........does it make sense that with the numbers on the map just sent, that the AF is richer? i think it does to me.....but only in certain areas.......

Their numbers do not make sense to me at all.

I will load the map you just sent me today, I will do a full power run at 100 throttle & post the results for you Saturday afternoon.

I am riding Saturday morning so I will do it after my ride.

wow, that's great..thanks mate.!

What I do find strange is that they have mapped the Power Commander to 8000 RPM where it is impossible to rev the XT past 7200 RPM.

Kev....the DNA map, "open Ackros" that my map had derived from, had those figures in....i s'pose they just left them there............

How many miles you got on it now by the way?

If I remember rightly, yamaha states that the bike will only be run in till after around 1000 miles anyway, couldn't help but notice you were dynoing it after 700?

the book states I think, 1/3rd thottle till 600, then 1/2 throttle till 1000 so the engine may still be a bit tight.

Just an afterthought...

Great news breaking!!!!!!..............

Dynojet UK rang the Dyno I used, and got them to check their Air Flow Meter.

The Air Flow Meter had a sticky valve !

I asked Dynojet UK if this could be giving me AF ratios 1-2 points out, and they said it probably could !

It gets better .....

So the Dyno have ordered a Service Kit for their meter from Dynojet UK, and then......they are going to get my bike back there, and re-dyno it!!!!!
:family::partyondude::family::sbike: