So....it will ALL be done on the same dyno in the end...so i will be able to see a "gain" for my mods........:bunny:

That is a good result. I look forward to seeing the correct results then.

Yeah, thats a good result!

Once you've got a completed map, can you mail it to me?

I'd like to try it.

I know you'rs is a PC3 and I've got a PCV but the new PCV software will allow PC3 maps to be used on it.

Thats great news! The most suspicious thing was the A/F meter, so lets really hope you will get some readings that make sense next time.

Great news.

That would explain things, any good dyno tunner should have work out you don't get good HP from any motor at 16:1.

Yep, I'm SO happy with the outcome, I'm sure the results will be good, as my bike was flying just after I did my mods, before the second dyno, but the lower-mid range throttle was a pig. So I just know it will fine now...

Daz, pm me your email and I'll send it to you when its done. (And Paul Curtis...) oh...only joking.....And of course Kev!!!!!!!

If they are going to spend a bit of time on the fuel map, tune for 12,8:1 low to mid range, then lean the map out to 13.2:1 mid to up top.

I'd still like to know what the A/F's are reading at the moment at 100% throttle...my theory around 0.8 to a point and a half too rich (12.4:1-11.7:1)

My latest dyno readings @100% throttle :
3000rpm 13:1
3500rpm 13.2
4000rpm 13.4
4500rpm 13.2
5000rpm 13.1
5500rpm 13.2
6000rpm 12.9
6500rpm 13.2
7000rpm 13.2

Ignition advance
 

Does anyone know/or done it, if it is possible to advance the ignition slightly on a 2008 XTR, as I am running 97ron petrol.

If so, how's it done? Can it be done on a Dyno?

(i know this is a little bit "Over the top"...but if its easy...its worth trying with more air, more fuel, 97ron)

You need a Rapid bike ECU for a XT660R or a Ignition module for a Raptor 700 to advance the ignition timing & rev limiter. You need a dyno to set it up.

http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander/Products/IgnitionModule/powercommander_ignition_module.aspx

Or the RB3 module

http://www.rapidbikeusa.com/about/the-rapid-bike-modules/

thats interesting Kev.

I should imagine ALOT of dyno time involved........but with my mods it MIGHT make 1-2hp.? Not worth the cost of the module and the extra dyno time to me though.

Have you ever tried it Kev?

I did consider it when I had the Raptor conversion on my last XTX, the out lay for the gains is what put me off. There are a few other ECU's that can control the XT's ignition timing but they all cost a bomb.

I will be experimenting with different cam degrees in a week or two to try get some cheap Hp out of my motor. Even though my motor is standard with the same mods as you have, you can melt the rear tyre on a hard ride. This is what my rear tyre looked like after my ride today. Boy I love my XT in the corners.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...x/DSCF3309.jpg

and it shouldn't take you too long at having a play with the firing order....:icon_study:

tyres look nicely worked to me Kev!

The XT is one of those bikes that can put 100% of it's power down to the road at any speed & has the edge in the tight stuff.

I won't be playing with the firing order, I will be modifying a stage 2 Hot Cam for better low end power.

Kev try some Avon Distanzia once in your life, you'll love your bike and the cornering you get out of them even more.

For once do try 'em Sir, you'll thank me.

Ask Miguel he was also an unbeliever until tlexup told him they were good, he tried them loved them and now he also runs them on his KTBoom! :icon_eek:

I will be up for a rear tyre next week.

Below is your fuel map loaded into my PCIII & data logged using my wideband commander at 100% throttle. Using 98 RON fuel.


Time TP RPM AFR
0.000 22 2701 12.5
0.100 20 2712 12.5
0.200 23 2732 12.5
0.300 22 2754 12.5
0.400 20 2782 12.5
0.500 23 2807 12.5
0.600 21 2818 12.5
0.700 23 2833 12.4
0.800 17 2859 12.4
0.900 25 2881 12.4
1.000 29 2908 12.3
1.100 30 2945 12.2
1.200 39 2976 12.1
1.300 49 3036 12.0
1.400 57 3084 12.0
1.500 65 3132 12.0
1.600 69 3184 12.0
1.700 77 3247 12.0
1.800 97 3289 12.0
1.900 100 3342 12.1
2.000 100 3406 12.2
2.100 100 3456 12.3
2.200 100 3514 12.5
2.300 100 3577 12.6
2.400 100 3642 12.7
2.500 100 3697 12.8
2.600 100 3752 12.9
2.700 100 3806 13.0
2.800 100 3871 13.2
2.900 100 3919 13.2
3.000 100 3983 13.3
3.100 100 4044 13.3
3.200 100 4108 13.3
3.300 100 4163 13.3
3.400 100 4222 13.3
3.500 100 4284 13.3
3.600 100 4344 13.3
3.700 100 4405 13.3
3.800 100 4462 13.3
3.900 100 4519 13.3
4.000 100 4590 13.2
4.100 100 4640 13.2
4.200 100 4707 13.2
4.400 100 4825 13.2
4.500 100 4888 13.1
4.600 100 4935 13.1
4.700 100 5009 13.0
4.800 100 5045 13.0
4.900 100 5116 12.9
5.000 100 5168 12.9
5.100 100 5223 12.9
5.200 100 5262 12.8
5.300 100 5335 12.8
5.400 100 5375 12.8
5.500 100 5430 12.7
5.600 100 5484 12.7
5.700 100 5536 12.7
5.800 100 5590 12.7
5.900 100 5629 12.7
6.000 100 5680 12.6
6.100 100 5734 12.6
6.200 100 5787 12.6
6.300 100 5828 12.6
6.400 100 5875 12.6
6.500 100 5920 12.7
6.600 100 5953 12.7
6.700 100 6008 12.7
6.800 100 6050 12.7
6.900 100 6087 12.7
7.000 100 6136 12.7
7.100 100 6171 12.7
7.200 100 6205 12.7
7.300 100 6250 12.6
7.400 100 6281 12.6
7.500 100 6309 12.6
7.600 100 6359 12.6
7.700 100 6382 12.6
7.800 100 6415 12.5
7.900 100 6451 12.5
8.000 100 6481 12.5
8.100 100 6515 12.5
8.200 100 6561 12.5
8.300 100 6577 12.4
8.400 100 6602 12.4
8.500 100 6646 12.4
8.600 100 6656 12.4
8.700 100 6685 12.4
8.800 100 6707 12.4
8.900 100 6750 12.4
9.000 100 6770 12.4
9.100 100 6780 12.4
9.200 100 6823 12.4
9.300 100 6833 12.4
9.400 100 6847 12.4
9.500 100 6874 12.4
9.600 100 6895 12.4
9.700 100 6926 12.4
9.800 100 6936 12.3
9.900 100 6961 12.3
10.000 100 6964 12.3
10.100 100 6992 12.3
10.200 100 7017 12.3
10.300 100 7032 12.3
10.400 100 7042 12.3
10.500 100 7042 12.2
10.600 100 7075 12.2
10.700 100 7089 12.2
10.800 100 7097 12.2
10.900 100 7115 12.2
11.000 100 7118 12.2
11.100 100 7129 12.1
11.200 100 7140 12.1
11.300 100 7166 12.1
11.400 100 7181 12.1

thanks Kev!! very very interesting.....

to put a comparison that's easy to read and simplified..

i cant do a spreadsheet, but here goes.....

AF figures are at the revs at 100% throttle, Kevs figures first.....

3500 12.5 13.2
4000 13.3 13.4
4500 13.3 13.2
5000 13.0 13.1
5500 12.7 13.2
6000 12.7 12.9
6500 12.5 13.2
7000 12.3 13.2


Now, some of these figures are almost identical, but others are as much as 0.9 of a point out.....strange.....

Also, these figures are a little closer at 5500rpm than the first map Kev looked at, where unfortunately he didn't do much "100%" throttle, but we had a reading at 100% at

5500 13.1 13.9

Now if we compare these figures at 5500RPM, between my first custom map , and my second custom map, and put this into HP figures we have..

On my first map i was showing around 2hp more (taking Kevs figures as accurate, 13.1), than on my second map (taking Kevs 12.7).

As you can see, JUST 0.4 of a point out = a loss of 2hp.

Broadly speaking, on my second custom map, the AF figures got more inaccurate the higher the rpm.

BUT ALSO !!! we have a greater differential between My readings and Kevs, at 5500rpm, between both the custom maps, of 0.8 of a point for the first map, and 0.5 of a point on the second map.

One thing I have learned on the XT, is the A/F ratio is effected by ambient temperatures & air pressure changes. The 3D mapping on the XT is not very good & the A/F can change a bit from day to day.

So, my second map is "too rich".

I think the first map, which produced the best power figures, was much closer to where I want to be.

I will call the Dyno on Tuesday, when hopefully they have received their Air Flow Meter "service kit", and drop off my bike later in the week for a re-dyno on Saturday.

I assume peak power (6000rpm) on my first map was at a "real" AF of around 12.6....more power to come out of my bike then........

Kev, it now looks like a real AF of between 13.2 and 13.5 is my bike power area......

Kev, it now looks like a real AF of between 13.2 and 13.5 is my bike power area......[/quote]

Yes leaner in the upper RPM range but you will get more HP just below 13:1 from 5000 rpm & below. The below dyno run shows a rich & leaner run, you can see at around 5000 rpm & above with a leaner mixture it produces more HP & torque. Below 5000 rpm it needs a slightly richer mixture

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...tx/dynorun.jpg

this thread is all coming together now........

I am just off to try a newly modified map (Called the "suck your finger an' poke it in the air map") a modified version of my first custom map.

just reduced the figures in 60, 80 100 throttle, all by around 20%, between 5500 and 7000rpm.................test riding in a minute...


in racing..do a big change, then work inwards!!

well...it needs more development!

it was not as good as my first map, was a bit "fluffy" at 100% around 5500...

I'm going to have a play with it, and then see the results of my modified map on the dyno!

Well, I have reduced the numbers on my first map, at the above mentioned ranges, by 5%......and its running well.

But not sure if its any better.....

PCV and Autotune :icon_thumleft:



:icon_lol:

yes I KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!

flash g!t. lol

Haha... My PCV I bought from someone here, can't remember who mind and its for a Raptor 700 but does the same job.

Got the autotune new a while later. cost like �360 or something like that in total :icon_eek:

But I wanted the autotune so I can customise my own maps as mods develop (namely my DIY Stage 3 which I really ought to get on with!) and as I have no dyno centre nearby it makes doing something like mapping difficult.

Really, I should have got the Wideband Commander like Kev, but didn't realise it even existed till after I'd got the autotune :evil3:

I would not buy a Auto Tune, I would buy a Wide Band Commander 2 it is a auto tune as well as a wide band commander that can display the A/F ratio on a gauge & costs less than a Auto Tune.

Just checked this article out: Superbike Magazine August 2010 (UK)...

Same bike, taken to 6 dynos....AF Ratio varies between 13.8:1 and 12:1......(except one dyno where it was really off-course.) To quote Superbike on the AF Ratios
"It's a difference that would be significant if you were having mapping work done."

I think it is ALWAYS worth asking a dyno, before booking, when they last calibrated/checked/serviced their Air Flow Meter.

Gotchya ;)


But yeah, Dyno's aren't always that accurate!
There are a few variables, even how tight the bike is down on the rollers makes a difference, adds drag.

Daz....Kev's just showing all the signs of jealousy.....

It seems a nice bit of kit to me mate......lol

(i think he means the Wideband Commander 2)


It's a really valid point about these AF Ratios...they vary so much between one dyno and another.

As a customer, you would think that if you booked a dyno, and paid �150-200, that you would be optimising your bikes performance....it could just be a total waste of money.

Damn is it showing, sorry mate.

So Kev, where does your Wideband pick-up the AF Ratio from? The header?

If so, that would be a far more accurate area for readings.

Is it a sensor like the O2 sensor? If so, what's the accurate service life of it?

wideband picks up the AF from the header. It'll screw into where the original O2 sensor is located and replaces it.

Yes, it is an O2 sensor, but a wideband one rather than narrowband like what the XT comes with as standard.

By using a wideband sensor it allows for a much more detailed map.

Here's something interesting Kev,

I hooked up my laptop to my PCV yesterday and was playing around with the software, under Device Description it gave me all the info about the PCV, serial numbers etc. Then directly under the PCV info, it said Wideband 2 and gave me serial numbers ect too!
So im wondering if my autotune is really a Wideband 2 with a different sticker!

Daz...you'll turn him into a Green-Eyed Monster from Downunder......

So, would the O2 eliminator fit on your sensor? I don't really understand.....

....And, if I had JUST the Wideband sensor, could my Dyno use that to do the AF Ratios?

Basically, what happens is, if you remove the O2 sensor that the bike comes with, your left with an open plug on the wiring loom. The bike will also see that theres and open plug because theres no signal and throw up an error code.

At the moment, the only O2 eliminator thats available plugs into that plug and stops the ECU from showing an error code.
However, this then causes the other problem we discussed earlier.

Because the wideband and autotune both use their own O2 sensor to build maps, you need to replace the original one the bike uses with the wideband/autotune one.

So, to summarise:
Bike comes with O2 sensor as standard
To use wideband/autotune you need to replace that sensor with the one the wideband/autotune came with.

That clear things up a little?
If not, ill see if I can get a picture later to illustrate it a little better.

Oh, also Kev

http://www.intobikes.co.uk/products/...ghlight=069436

I can get the LCD for the PCV and it works with the autotune allowing Logging and map switching etc :icon_cyclops_ani:



And if you had the wideband sensor, that'd mean you'd also have a wideband commander or autotune and wouldn't -really- need a dyno ;)

yep Daz, you explained that well, thanks.

But, could I fit just the Wideband sensor for my Dyno, so that they can plug into it, so I get the best AF Ratios????

I s'pose I could ask Dynojet UK...

Yip I know that, you have to contact Dynojet to get the new firmware for the LCD200 so it can read the A/F ratio as it does not do it from standard.

I got the software upgrade last year to make my LCD100 into a LCD200 so it can run on a PCV, but have not upgraded mine as I still run a PCIII with LCD100 screen.

You know what? I was going to name this thread...

" Dynojet AF Ratio analysis with Wideband Autotune Multi-Way Switching with optional LCD unit and an Angel on the top, before the DNA Stage 3 Airbox".........

But it was too darn'd long...........:thumbleweed:

been a good thread and there's has been a lot discussed although slightly off topic. However, there's also been a lot of other people view this and probably quite a few external to the site looking for XT related stuff on google etc so it's nice to think this thread may have helped them too


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