Clutch damper spring orientation - .: XT660.com

Jofr · # 1 30-03-16, 22:46

Hi guys,

I had my clutch plates out for inspection and when installing everything back I didn't recall the orientation of the 'clutch damper spring'. This is the concave metal disc (says OUTSIDE on the concave side) that goes in second after the first metal disc 'clutch damper spring seat'. The service manual says to install with the OUTSIDE mark facing out - so I installed it with the outside mark facing to the outside of the engine as in to the right side when looking at the motorcycle from behind. Is that correct or would the OUTSIDE mark need to be facing out from the clutch plates so towards to cylinder?

I actually tried both but I'm having another problem with the clutch as it is not actuating (no resistance in clutch lever), not sure where the problem is but I will take my time tomorrow so I'd also like to be sure then the clutch damper spring is facing the right way so I won't have to pull it off once more

.

Thanks in advance for anyone willing to supply me the answer!

Jofr · # 2 31-03-16, 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepsi

The metal ring with 'outside' on it faces out of the engine. You have to make sure the plates sit in the correct recessess too. Also the actuation lever on the clutch casing needs to be set in the correct position as you engage it on to its geared shaft. This will ensure the lever moves to the correct position when the casing is closed up.

Thanks for the clarification! The plates should be in correct, I think the problem with not actuating is in the pull lever / push rod. I lined up the dots on the casing and lever though. Either the push rod does not sit properly in the casing (not sure if even possible if you close up the casing) or I would need to set up the pull lever bit with the push rod (I never removed the pull lever from the casing, that might be necessary I guess to set it up good..?)

Pleiades · # 3 31-03-16, 17:55

It could be the actuating rod/lever orientated or engaged (with the push rod) correctly. The punch marks should line up when the clutch is fully engaged. Read this thread and see if it helps...

http://www.xt660.com/showthread.php?t=23282

Or this one if you fancy a longer read...

http://www.xt660.com/showthread.php?t=20931

Jofr · # 4 01-04-16, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleiades

It could be the actuating rod/lever orientated or engaged (with the push rod) correctly. The punch marks should line up when the clutch is fully engaged. Read this thread and see if it helps...

http://www.xt660.com/showthread.php?t=23282

Or this one if you fancy a longer read...

http://www.xt660.com/showthread.php?t=20931

Thanks for the links Pleiades, it helped me setup the actuating rod correctly again.

But the main problem I had still exist which is that the clutch is not actually disengaging, I thought it was maybe due to the clutch plates sticking and that's why I opened it up in the first place but that does not seem to be the case. I'm sure the clutch plates etc. are all in the right place at the moment as per manual now. To be clear this problem already existed before I opened her up, I first noticed the problem after I changed the oil + filter. Anyone any ideas? I just cannot disengage the clutch even the slightest even if I fully remove the slack of the clutch lever.

Jofr · # 5 01-04-16, 19:40

With the rear wheel lifted I could sometimes start the bike with the clutch disengaged in the higher gears 3+. The wheel would not turn but once let go of the lever most of the times I could not disengage the clutch anymore and the wheel would keep turning...

Very strange, I'm left clueless to be honest. Could it be the oil, is the XT 660 picky about oil? I've used the same oil in my XT600E without issues.

Jofr · # 6 01-04-16, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepsi

got to ask have you recently replaced or adjusted the clutch cable at the bottom of the cable?

I had it loosened after opening up the clutch. But I had not adjusted it before and the problem with the clutch not disengaging was already there (it was the reason why I opened up the clutch for inspection).

Even if I leave no play in the cable it doesn't disengage properly so..

Pleiades · # 7 02-04-16, 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jofr

I had it loosened after opening up the clutch. But I had not adjusted it before and the problem with the clutch not disengaging was already there (it was the reason why I opened up the clutch for inspection).

Even if I leave no play in the cable it doesn't disengage properly so..

It could be that the teeth on the end of the push rod axle aren't/weren't engaged properly with the teeth on the pull rod and are either slipping or not moving the push rod at all? Alternatively, if the teeth on the pull rod (sticking out the clutch assembly) are facing the wrong way (rearwards) on assembly the clutch push rod won't move and the teeth on the pull rod can get mashed up like this...

Either way, if you are sure the external parts are all in order (cable, freeplay, lever, punch marks etc.) then you're going to have to resign yourself to taking the cover off and inspecting.

The interesting thing is it happened after an oil change. What oil did you put in? It is quite possible that the oil used could have swelled the friction plates locking everything up - the "wrong" oil doesn't always result in clutch slip; a common misconception. I've seen/heard of several sets of clutch plates ruined by the use of "Energy Conserving" oils, just ask SteveD! BTW - contrary to popular belief, the wrong oil doesn't mean synthetic, nothing to do with that, it's stuff labelled "Energy Conserving" (usually, but not exclusively car oils) that are the problem due to the complex additives which reduce friction and cause swelling in multiplate wet clutches; it just happens to only come in synthetic form. It should never go anywhere near a wet clutch.

Use only JASO MA certified motorcycle oils suitable for wet clutches, which can be mineral, semi or fully synthetic.

Jofr · # 8 02-04-16, 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleiades

It could be that the teeth on the end of the push rod axle aren't/weren't engaged properly with the teeth on the pull rod and are either slipping or not moving the push rod at all? Alternatively, if the teeth on the pull rod (sticking out the clutch assembly) are facing the wrong way (rearwards) on assembly the clutch push rod won't move and the teeth on the pull rod can get mashed up like this...

Either way, if you are sure the external parts are all in order (cable, freeplay, lever, punch marks etc.) then you're going to have to resign yourself to taking the cover off and inspecting.

The interesting thing is it happened after an oil change. What oil did you put in? It is quite possible that the oil used could have swelled the friction plates locking everything up - the "wrong" oil doesn't always result in clutch slip; a common misconception. I've seen/heard of several sets of clutch plates ruined by the use of "Energy Conserving" oils, just ask SteveD! BTW - contrary to popular belief, the wrong oil doesn't mean synthetic, nothing to do with that, it's stuff labelled "Energy Conserving" (usually, but not exclusively car oils) that are the problem due to the complex additives which reduce friction and cause swelling in multiplate wet clutches; it just happens to only come in synthetic form. It should never go anywhere near a wet clutch.

Use only JASO MA certified motorcycle oils suitable for wet clutches, which can be mineral, semi or fully synthetic.

I got it fixed today by changing the oil to JASO certified oil. After the test I did yesterday I couldn't think of any other reason than that the clutch plates had swolen up or were sticking due to wrong oil. I never had problems with that oil before in other bikes but perhaps the manufacturer has changed it in recent months or the XT 660's plates are a bit more sensitive

Either way it's fixed thanks for the help!

I do find that it seems the point from engagement to disengagement is very short making it hard to move the bike foreward with clutch while idling - it stalls easily without adding gas. Could also be that the idle rpm is a bit low though.

Pleiades · # 9 02-04-16, 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jofr

I got it fixed today by changing the oil to JASO certified oil. After the test I did yesterday I couldn't think of any other reason than that the clutch plates had swolen up or were sticking due to wrong oil. I never had problems with that oil before in other bikes but perhaps the manufacturer has changed it in recent months or the XT 660's plates are a bit more sensitive

Either way it's fixed thanks for the help!

I do find that it seems the point from engagement to disengagement is very short making it hard to move the bike foreward with clutch while idling - it stalls easily without adding gas. Could also be that the idle rpm is a bit low though.

The clutch may still be dragging a bit. Swollen clutch friction plates don't/can't shrink back to their original thickness; once they've been contaminated, they stay contaminated. You may well have eased the symptoms, but if the wrong spec oil has been used (assuming everything is adjusted properly) nothing short of a fresh set of friction plates will be required to return clutch action back to normal.

Jofr · # 10 05-04-16, 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleiades

The clutch may still be dragging a bit. Swollen clutch friction plates don't/can't shrink back to their original thickness; once they've been contaminated, they stay contaminated. You may well have eased the symptoms, but if the wrong spec oil has been used (assuming everything is adjusted properly) nothing short of a fresh set of friction plates will be required to return clutch action back to normal.

New set of friction plates will come in end of this week, will post back if replacing them will do the trick. I tried to clean the old plates the best I could but still the disengagement did function 100% so I can only assume it is indeed the problem.

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