Hi all,

I've been having intermittent starting issues - the bike is used for commuting, so I'm desperate to get it back on the road asap.

Two weeks ago, temperatures were at -4, bike started once, was idling badly and eventually died. Wouldn't restart (Battery was fine but used leads anyway) had to call the RAC, checked all plugs and spark - fine. eventually got bike going - easy start was used but I think luck had more to do with it.

The local garage had the bike for a week and couldn't find the problem. Alarm has been disconnected as it was overriding fault codes and not displaying them. Only error was 30 which I believe means it was dropped. code was wiped and bike seemed to be starting ok until it rained, then nothing. Dried off over night - bike started fine again. Garage tried to replicate this - no luck, wet as you like, bike still started. They admitted defeat :-(

The rev counter runs at around 600 when successfully starting the bike and I've seen 200-500 revs when it's not started. It sounds so close to starting but never "catches".

-RAC man thought it was dirty fuel.
-Friend thought it was dirty throttle plate - used FI cleaner spray and the bike was ok for a week. (also ran a fuel cleaner through and have since refuelled.
-Garage thought it was the alarm.

I don't get the engine warning light or any error codes.

I'm thinking it might have something to do with this http://www.xt660.com/showthread.php?...light=starting
But it's a lot of work just to take a look. Has anyone else got ideas?

Many thanks,

Chris

for starters you want to see around 1500rpm when warm so maybe a low idle speed.

from what your saying with the rain i'd be thinking a bad connection somewhere.

any mods on the bike?

Sorry Simon, I should have been clearer I was referring to the revs made by the starter engine if/ when it does start the revs sit at 1600.

Incidentally it did start again later in the day. Eventually kicked in and sat at 2000 revs before coming down to its usual. I was riding In the rain and green laning. So would have got a proper soaking this afternoon. I'll try and start it again in a few hours when it's cold again. My worry is it won't start at 6am as its that bit colder...


Oh it's an 09 model and I believe it had that loom issue sorted.
Mods: 2in1 MTC Exhaust, scotoiler, meta alarm (now disconnected). And heated grips. Part from the oiler, all mods were on the bike at purchase last April.

It does occasionally stall in town, generally when I'm filtering (great fun -not). I've always put it down to being in the wrong gear, but maybe it's connected to this.
Can anyone recommend a bike electrics specialist in London or Herts?

Thanks again

I sympathise mate, my bike is also my toy and my workhorse so understand, has anyone checked for vacuum leaks on the scotty?

are the battery terminals nice and tight? has anyone checked the CCA on the battery? do you know the bikes service history? i.e. valves, plugs etc.

if you've the time and tools it'd save you some time and money just running around checking your connector blocks.

I assume yours is a Z

First check all the basic stuff (which it sounds like you have): Fresh fuel, decent plug/decent spark, clean airbox/airfilter, decent battery output and as Simon mentioned: Good battery connections and no vacuum leaks on the Scottoiler plumbing (or anywhere else for that matter).

You say it is intermittent? It does sound a bit like the injector wiring abrasion issue? Could also be symptomatic of a dicky fuel pump too? However, the fact that "wet" is involved makes it sounds more likely a dodgy connection, frayed cable or exposed conductor.

I think it would be worth (despite the hassle) removing the fuel tank and checking the condition of the injector wiring - if it is that, it's an easy fix. Whilst it is off you can have a good scout around the rest of the loom and the connectors which are prone on XTs to furring up with corrosion, particularly ignition and fuel pump.

Some things you can check without removing the tank: The crank position sensor coupler is worth a look too, just behind the rear brake reservoir, as are the connections on the main relay under the seat. Also check the operation of the clutch switch and side stand switches/connectors because they can cause non-starting trouble. Check the lean angle tip-over switch and connectors too.

Before you do anything, can you check the following/answer these questions... (1) Does it only fail to start (when the fault is present), or does it cut out intermittently when it's running too? You say it's stalled in town, is that just when setting off or actually while riding? (2) When you turn the ignition on, can you hear the fuel pump priming? Does the pump prime when it is in it's non-starting state?

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Thanks for all the tips guys - I'm not so sure it is a wet issue thoough, as the bike is either parked in a car port or a garage - it might get a few drops every now and then in the car port but not a soaking.

Temperature seems more likely: following my successful 2pm start and ride earlier (bike didn't start at 11am), I parked up at 3:30, started it again at 6ish (no problems) tried and failed to start at 8pm.

I like the sound of CCA, had a quick scan and it seems in line with the symptoms (lower revs from the starter motor at colder temperatures). I'll call the garage to see if they tested CCA. I'm tempted to buy a new battery if the garage didn't test. How does that sound? However, that doesn't explain why it cut out after starting on the very cold day (before calling the RAC) when it first wouldn't start.

Pleiades, the pump always primes and I've taken to waiting until everything on the dash has settled down before starting.
No fault codes have appeared on turning the ignition on, I tried and failed to get into diagnostic mode (will double check and try again). When it's cut out mid ride, it always starts immediately - don't even need to put my feet down.

Thanks again.

Best get that tank off and check the injector wiring. Beginning to sound very much like that could be the root of your woes?

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Boohoo,I thought you'd say that.

I've seen what I'm looking for, if the cable is still there can I just use some heat shrink casing on it, then put some foam between the cable and the frame and it could be ok?

How long would it take your average joe to remove the tank?

Anyone know of large Jerry can suppliers?

Thanks again.

Chris

Assuming it is the injector spur, you should be able to repair any damage to the wires quite easily. You may have to peel back some of the looms wrapping to get enough slack to play with. Use solder to repair the conductor (if required) and heat shrink or self-amalgamating tape to repair the insulation. Once repaired it would be wise to fit a foam pad like the original link you saw to this fault ( http://www.xt660.com/showthread.php?t=23331).

I reckon (if its your first time) it takes about half an hour to remove the tank and about the same to put it back. You do not need to necessarily drain the tank into a Jerry can as the pipe union on the pump body is self-sealing; the only issue is the weight. If you've got half a tank of fuel or less you will be able to man-handle it. With a full tank it's still possible, but 23 litres of fuel weighs about 20Kg!

Here's a good thread to guide you through removing and refitting the tank...

http://www.xt660.com/showthread.php?t=8876

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So, tank came off today - it looks as though there is no damage to the cabling for the FI. I've added padding to the potential wear areas.
I tried to look at the connection for the regulator rectifier, but struggled to get it off.
Washed the bike with a pressure washer (always do) Bike started no problem.

Battery was still good after 36 hours.

So back to square 1 - not sure if it's cold or wet that causes problems....