Gearbox Failure: Calling all XTZ owners who have suffered it
 

As you may have read elsewhere, it has become apparent that there are a number of MY2009 XT660Z T�n�r�s that have suffered from premature gearbox failure, usually the dogs shearing on either third or fourth gear. I don�t want to make anyone unduly worried; this appears only to be a problem with a small batch of 2009 built XTZ models, it doesn�t seem to affect XTX, XTR, or for that matter XTZ models from any other years apart from 2009. We are only talking of seven bikes identified on this forum (which has over 10,000 members), so no need to panic! However, there does seem to be a pattern developing that�s worth investigating further and possibly pursuing with Yamaha, especially so if you had the misfortune to suffered a broken gearbox, or perhaps own a 2009 T�n�r� with sticky gears, false neutrals etc.

What I am attempting to do is build an accurate picture of what is happening, and in particular try and determine if there is any pattern to the failures in order to put a case to Yamaha on behalf of all the owners who have suffered this issue. There is greater strength in numbers and when you have the facts at hand.

If you currently (or have) owned a T�n�r� that has had a gearbox failure, I would be very grateful if you could supply me with some basic details of the bike concerned. If you no longer own the bike, it would still be really helpful if you could still provide the details (or as much as you can remember) if you can.

In order to put a valid case to Yamaha, I realistically need as many sets of VIN and engine numbers as possible. The more details we get, the more forcefully I will be able to pursue the issue with Yamaha and the more likely that they will investigate it further, which at this stage, I would suggest is the main aim.

So, if you are one of the unlucky few, and you can help, then please provide me details in the following format by PM (for obvious security reasons):

Forum member/owner:
Engine number:
VIN number:
Date of first registration:
Country of registration:
Odometer reading at time of failure:
Date of failure:
Gear failed:

Note: Do not post this information on the open forum.

Many thanks. I�ll do what I can, as much as anything, because I know how I�d feel if the same misfortune befell me.

I have opened a dedicated thread in the Italian forum of CTI (Club T�n�r� Italia). Thread here: http://www.clubtenereitalia.it/viewt...475601#7475601

I will myself send you the data and possibly pictures ASAP. Thank you for your dedication.

Thanks for that Pepsi. I've got to do the CaptMoto's Facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/4737543350/. I have to say I'm not a massive Facebook user and wasn't aware of the other two groups.

Well I've had four replies so far: Niek, Mech, oldmanthatcansee and Mr Konik. :signthankspin:

Not really enough to go on yet though.

@Chenko - I can't get the link to the Italian Tenere forum to work?

Keep the information coming - there are at least three more registered members here who have not come forward yet...

Gearbox failure
 

It happen to my bike. Here is thread: http://www.xt660.com/showthread.php?t=22971

Sorry for getting back so late, I don't have the failed engine myself, it sits at a friend of mine's house and could not get to it until yesterday. I took pictures of engine ID number and some pics of the damage too

http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/a...psvl8peqtn.jpg

http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps0spxn5jv.jpg

http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/a...psha9zaapu.jpg

http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/a...psuo1ae7r4.jpg

http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/a...psb9hzmsib.jpg

http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/a...psvjbvsome.jpg

Italian forum thread is not accessible because the whole forum was updated recently.
New link is: http://www.clubtenereitalia.it/index...ura-del-cambio

Hi, I had a 3rd gear failure on 2012 xt660z. 3 No. dogs were found in crankcases when clutch cover was removed. Gearbox started making clacking noises which at first I thought was chain clatter, however as noise got worse it became apparent it only happend in third gear. As I was on a european trip I carried on riding the bike for a further 2000 miles with third gear getting harder to select and not being able to change up to 4th. Fortunately the bike made it home and on removing the clutch cover and clutch I found the broken gearbox parts sitting on the bottom of the cases. I haven't got round to stripping the engine yet to see the full extent of the damage. miles 18000.
Engine No: M311E0007353
vin No: ZD0DM021000007619
1st Reg:16/03/2011
Country: UK
Mileage 18000
3rd Gear

Hi, I had a 3rd gear failure on 2012 xt660z. 3 No. dogs were found in crankcases when clutch cover was removed. Gearbox started making clacking noises which at first I thought was chain clatter, however as noise got worse it became apparent it only happend in third gear. As I was on a european trip I carried on riding the bike for a further 2000 miles with third gear getting harder to select and not being able to change up to 4th. Fortunately the bike made it home and on removing the clutch cover and clutch I found the broken gearbox parts sitting on the bottom of the cases. I haven't got round to stripping the engine yet to see the full extent of the damage. miles 18000.

1st Reg:16/03/2011
Country: UK
Mileage 18000
3rd Gear

Thanks for this information. I will add it to the database.

I am still waiting for a reply from Yamaha relatinging to my last communication, which was three months ago! Time to chase them up again me thinks.

BTW, your bike is very unlikely to be a 2012 model as its engine number comes from a sequence issued in... you guessed it 2009! It falls slap bang in the middle of the range of bikes that have exhibited this problem. I would guess that it was unregistered old stock in 2011 and then bought and registered?

FYI - The affected engine range based on data collected is: M311E-006404 to M311E-0009244

Note: I've removed the frame and engine numbers for security - we don't want anyone cloning your bike!

2009 Ten just blew
 

Hi mate. How goes this crusade? I've not been an owner long, just bought 09 which now has 12 600km on it.....and yep, gearbox has just gone!
Can't say I noticed anything change. I was doing about 70km/h in 3rd, shifted to 4th, and it made a hell of a racket. Went bang into 1st by the feel of it (luckily I was hard on the brake and had no one behind me) and she was locked!! 35min walk later and glad my old ute started so I could go pick it up!!
Tomorrow afternoon I will PM you the bike details if that helps? I might even call Yamaha myself and see what they say...
Otherwise it's going to be a learning curve to rebuild a gearbox I guess!!
Cheers.

That’s a bit of a defeatist attitude I might say. Whilst I agree that statistically the proportion of bikes affected is tiny and getting anything out of Yamaha is going to be a long shot (which I have mentioned many times in this thread and the two other ‘bigger’ threads). In my view it’s still worth the effort. Those that don’t ask, don’t get! For your information, Yamaha have replied. Twice in fact. Admittedly the response is just that “we are looking into it.” Read into that what you will.

The common factors, as you describe them, have all been covered on the forum for everyone to see/read in this thread and Niek’s original gearbox problem thread (and Bartosz’s too). However, I have to make it clear, no one here or anywhere else has actually got a definitive answer as to what is the root cause of the problem – the vast majority of the talk is supposition and speculation, which in itself isn’t always that helpful. If we (XT660.com) knew the definitive cause/answer (which we don’t) then we would be the first to let everyone know about it.

Not sure what you are insinuating here? Who are the “few”? Who’s denying Yamaha a “get out”? As I’ve already mentioned, everything known is out there on the forum already! Nobody here is covering anything up or hiding anything. As for futile and misguided… Why does that bother you so much? It’s not as if you’re doing the leg work!

In the original two gearbox failure threads it has been mentioned several times to owners with the problem, that, with any second hand bike, it is impossible to ascertain how the bike had been ridden/abused. A bit harsh though to suggest it’s their own fault (even if you think it) - I suspect you may feel slightly differently if it happened to you!

I’m afraid that’s the nature of forums; like it or loath it. If you read the main threads on gearbox failure thoroughly you will see that it has been made abundantly clear many times, the caveat that, in the interests of fairness, balance and reason – negative comments/issues always outway the positive within forums (attention is always drawn to the negatives). In fact your post above is, to a degree, an example of this very phenomenon.

Even if it appears misguided and futile in your eyes, it doesn't mean it isn't worth doing. Yes, Yamaha may come up with nothing, but then again there’s a small chance that they might concede something – no one will ever know unless someone tries! Where would the world be now if everyone had the “oh, that’ll never happen/it’s a waste of time” attitude. I’m of a “glass is half full” disposition, so I always expect a positive result, even when it’s against the odds and it’s going to take a bit of effort. I won’t be disappointed if nothing comes of it either, but at least I can hold my head high and say I’ve done something.

Original gearbox threads (please read them in their entirety to put this thread in context).

Niek’s Thread (the first one alluding to this issue): http://www.xt660.com/showthread.php?t=19882

Bartosz’s Thread (follow-up to the above): http://www.xt660.com/showthread.php?t=22495

The reason I'm doing what I'm doing is, as I said in the OP: "I’ll do what I can, as much as anything, because I know how I’d feel if the same misfortune befell me."

Believe me, we've thought about this, but other than making the three main threads in question "sticky", there's not a lot that can be done. Trouble is, merging threads into one almost always makes the finished (combined) thread unintelligible as people's replies are directed at different posts and it all gets chronologically messed up and out of sync. The other problem is that, by the very nature of a forum, topics are contributed to by different people at different times with different angles and approaches; no one person is imparting the information. Effectively a forum can be seen as a database of information, and like all databases, they need querying/searching to extract what is relevant and required.

As I said, no one person is the sole contributor and different people have different axes to grind, so keeping it simple and sharp not really something one can completely control - without the authoritarian approach of editing everyone's posts! (Which isn't going to happen here!) ;)

I don't recall anyone making any 'promises', vague or otherwise? :dontknow:

***

Here's what we will do in an effort to make things easier to find:

(1) Make all three of the main gearbox threads sticky
(2) Edit the titles so they are more clearly linked together
(3) Put links to all three threads at the top of the OP in each

Give me 24 hours and I'll get it done...

It is done. All sticky, clearly labelled and in one place.

Should be transparent and easy enough for everyone to find the information they need without having to use the search button.

See here: http://www.xt660.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163

I think you're doing a fabulous job. Without people like your good self taking on seemingly hopeless causes a lot of valuable victories in various fields would not have been won. Just my two penneth.....if it was down to riding style you'd would expect the failures to be spread evenly across all model years.

Power to your elbow Pleiades.:WellDone_OROQR1::WellDone_OROQR1:

Issue not confined to XTZ
 

My son was racing in the Finke Desert Race last year on a 2014 YZ450 & had a similar failure, the dog between 3rd & 4th broke at race speed with catastrophic results, cases all but split in two, around the countershaft, top & bottom.:icon_sad: From what we've heard, 5 others over the race period, suffered the same failure, so it appears, Yamaha has a "Houston, we have a problem" issue which is continuing.

That's very valid point. Whilst undoubtedly riding style will likely exacerbate a problem that already is in the making, it is unlikely to be the root cause. There are loads of 2008 and 2010> XTZs that have been ridden just as hard, if not harder, and have shown no sign of the issue occurring. Take Jenny Morgan's 2008 bike, which is probably the one that's seen the most abuse: That did an extended tour of America, came back home, did the Heroes-Legend Rally and then countless Big Bike Rally Championship rounds and by all accounts (now in new hands) is still a strong as she ever was (that's the bike not Jenny!)

Fingers crossed for you. Just remember, there are way more 2009 bikes that haven't gone bang than have, so the odds are stacked in your favour!

Yamaha do seem to have a recurring problem with the stopper lever arm and shift shaft assembly across a range of models. It was only just over a year ago when several bikes in the MT range were recalled because of "potential transmission lock-up" due to the aforementioned part.

2009 xt660z
21 548 ks on the clock
Third gear broke while on gentle acceleration heading home for lunch.

Thanks pepsi.
Sadly i now have a bank loan for a paper weight.
looking into a replacement engine.

I know the feeling mate. Do yourself a favour and talk to Yamaha also. I went through my local peter stevens and they went in to bat for me also. Basically, Yamaha ended up paying for about 900 dollars of parts and I covered the rest. And at the end of the day my bike is only just now going again, but in time to get it dirty. Seriously though, call Yamaha! Any little bit out of them will be better than nothing.
Good luck mate

Forum member/owner:yuk
Engine number:
VIN number:
Date of first registration: 11D1
Country of registration:1th Italy
Odometer reading at time of failure: 29600 km
Date of failure:07.2016
Gear failed:4

Gearbox Updates?
 

Hi guys just wondering if anything happened from this thread. My 2009 xtz (26k)has just lost 3rd (unless you smash it in and out).I just nursed it home today so only had to ride about 8miles on it. My question is that as a mechanical novice on bikes, how expensive a fix are we talking? I have a 4000mile bike tour planned in 4 weeks and am wondering if this bike will not be taking me there? Typical!!!

I have just stumbled across this, mostly because I was never looking for issues, and checked my log book to see m311e0007925. Bike is 09 and 8000miles, guess I'll have to keep an ear out :hb:

gearbox update
 

so the bike is in intensive care... third gear failed and bounced around a bit taking a few bits with it....all in about �1000 fix. i leave for a Europe tour on the 2nd sept to visit my dads grave in Bulgaria, they are hoping to get it back to me before so i can get some mileage in to make sure its ok. going to be tight. fingers crossed itll be ok on the trip.........

I'm sorry I read this post now..... My bike is a 2009 and the engine number falls in that range!!! So what should I be looking out for?

Gotta say PanosP my engine was also in that batch and blew it's 3rd gear at 46,000 Km, (some go with less), in December 2017, on a motorway joining sliproad. There are no warning signs, it just goes. Some have said, in the past, that the 'stopper arm' or its spring may have contributed to the failures. I changed mine as a precaution for brand new Yamaha parts in the hope I'd be OK. It was a simple job and took a couple of hours. The parts were 40 euros. It didn't stop the inevitable. In fact the gearbox shattered a few thousand K's later.

It's easier to change the entire engine than strip out a busted one and cleanse it from the shrapnel which will just destruct a repaired engine. I bought a replacement motor that was in an Aprilia Pegaso. The same motor is also in MZ's.

Yamaha have disowned the problem and not every engine in that batch has failed but it is a game of Russian Roulette, especially if you're on a massive tour.

sorry buddy!

Thanks Chalk Two...

Guess Ill just ride it like I stole it and not worry.... Sh1t happens.

indeed it does brother !

A replacement engine seems to be best choice

but
Sorry, as far as I know MZ only used the old 660 engine with 5 valves. Won't fit !

Werner

if these 5 valve motors won't fit, i guess you could always make it fit by welding new brackets? don't thing they will all differ, especially the one thrue the swingarm? that last one will line the engine nicely out.
when the needs comes to make one fit, it'll work.

Sorry buddy.MZ used the 660 4 valve XT engine

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-...hira-660/2001/

No way, MZ Baghira used the old 5valve motor, same as xtz660 Tenere.

If you have a look at your link, you will see under "Specification":
Engine type.........5v single cylinder, 5 gears
It's the old engine with 5 valves

Cheers
Werner

Sorry for the confusion but it clearly states in the same MCN article it's the same liquid cooled engine as used in the XT660 and the MT03 and in the Pegaso Strada and it's a Pegaso Strada I got my engine from for my Tenere. I'm only passing on what the bike press have said, coupled with the fact I have used an Aprilia engine, which was just plug-n-play. Something is not quite right then?........don't believe everything you read.....or the press, unless you're like me and don't read it all...My bad!!

Gearbox x 2
 

I have a 2012 XTZ 660 Tenere. Gearbox failed at 27636 kms (17272 miles). Whole engine & gearbox including engine casings was rebuilt under guarantee. New piston rings but only original piston retained from original engine.
Now have 53473 kms (33420 miles) on the new engine & gearbox and the gearbox has failed again. Bike is currently in workshop and engine is about to be split again.
Looks like 4th gear failure. The bike would often get stuck in 4th gear and was not able to change up or down. Eventually after a lot of fiddling with my foot while freewheeling it would change up to 5th but never down to 3rd. After getting it up to 5th I could change gears again for a while if I changed very carefully and deliberately. Also a rattle started to come from somewhere towards the front lower left hand side of the engine.
Currently the bike is in the workshop. Clutch stripped & nothing wrong there. Oil drained and we have discovered a piece of metal (magnetic) which has appeared at the drain hole but is too big to get out the drain hole. Engine has to be split. I will keep you posted.

Ok Gang......

The dreaded day has finally arrived!!! My XTZ now no longer has 3rd gear.
This happened while going quite slowly in London traffic as I changed up to 3rd. All I heard was a crunch and then nothing. I can still change gears although between 1st and 2nd there is a slight crunch but goes in ok, have a false neutral instead of 3rd, 4th and 5th ok. Going down is the same. Testament to the bike as it got me home! Any advice before I start to take it apart greatly appreciated. My bike is a 2009 with 22000 miles on it.
:011:

Sad news!... I started by taking off the entire right side casing which can be done with the engine in the frame. I then used a magnetic pen and fished around just underneath the clutch basket and in to the middle of the engine. Sure enough, I pulled out the remains of a gear cog.

There is no easy way really, but I decided it was less time consuming and easier to replace the entire engine rather than strip and cleanse the original. I bought an Aprilia Pegaso Strada engine which is the exact same engine. Much cheaper than those advertised as a XT660. The Aprilia's lump had "Aprilia" on the clutch cover so I swapped them over.

Any new engine should really be out of the troublesome 2009 engine number range.

If you decided to split your engine you'll need a new headgasket. I have a new genuine Yamaha one and they cost about �60. If you're interested, PM me and we could agree a cheaper price and I'll post it over.

Good luck

Hi Chalk Two

Thanks, if I do go down the road of a new engine, what year should I be looking for? I take it stay away from 2009 year engine range?... I'm looking at my options at the moment as cost is the controlling factor right now. I have my VFR to use for now but don't want to abuse the old girl commuting in London.

you're welcome. For me it was a case of writing off a �3300 bike as a total loss and making welding projects out of it or spending �500 to keep it on the road. As for which years to avoid, I'd ask you read this thread for full info. Sad to hear you'd rather ***** a Ten through the winter salt of the London commute than a Viffer.........;-) ... I had a 2000 800Fi and loved it though ;-)

did anyone ever try to shoehorn an mt07 engine in the ten's frame? :-p