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  # 1  
Old 01-11-13, 23:47
Jami Jami is offline
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More watts

Hi guys

Has anyone tuned up a Tenere's generator or changed it into some other model? I'm thinking on traveling from Finland to Spain next January and need more juice for all the heated gear I got. A few years back I measured getting extra 9.5 amps@4000 rpm out of it so that doesn't quite do the job for me.

Someone advised me that if I'll have the original generator tuned up, I should also change all the wiring that's gonna run with the higher current (from the generator to the rec/reg and to the battery I reckon) into a better one. Any ideas if this is necessary with Tenere's electrics?

Any other ideas how to solve this not-having-enough-watts -issue?

Jami
  # 2  
Old 02-11-13, 00:58
66T 66T is offline
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Usually getting more steam out of an alternator isn't too hard, I understand. There are experts in the field who can rewind/repair/exchange stators here, so it's logical that you would have them too.

With any significant increase in current draw, you would have to upgrade the charge wiring to be safe imo. And no doubt the Z's marginal regulator, which may be stressed beyond it's limit.

I'm no auto electrician, and no doubt your questions are far better answered by Kev, but some years ago I had a Toyota alternator upgraded and the above mods applied.

All I can say is you must be a legend to be able to ride out of Finland in winter. +10degC is enough to get most Australians shivering and complaining about the cold. Including me!
  # 3  
Old 02-11-13, 01:40
Jami Jami is offline
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Well yes, but if someone has already done it, I'd like to know much more watts they got and if the whole thing made any sense before having it tuned up for my bike. There's only so much space between the generator and the flywheel so you can't just tune it up to whatever you want.

To be on the safe side one could change the wiring, that's true. Just don't feel like doing it unless it's necessary, sounds like a pain in the ass.

According to the specs section of the service manual, the generator output is 20.8A@5000 rpm and the rectifier capacity (whatever that means) is 35A. To me this sounds like enough. Or is it? Any ideas, anyone?

Riding in winter here is just a matter of proper riding gear. And being an idiot.

Jami
  # 4  
Old 02-11-13, 08:36
Pleiades Pleiades is offline
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Theoretically you can change the stator windings on an alternator to produce a higher peak output, but in most cases this will adversely affect the low rpm output of the alternator. If you go too far searching for higher peak outputs, you can actually end up with a discharge at idle and low speeds. In order to increase output across the entire range of speeds, the alternator needs significant modification to stator and rotor.

The simple way to achieve a higher output is to put fewer windings of a heavier gauge wire on the stator, which reduces the impedance and allows more current flow. Even that only works if the is enough magnetic flux to excite the windings. More windings of thinner gauge wire make more efficient use of lower magnetic flux and give better performance at low rpm, but give a lower overall output. It�s not easy balancing the two.

It�s not just the stator than needs modifying. The size of the rotor�s iron core together with its field windings is another problem, and you can�t easily change that on a motorcycle alternator. Not enough core/windings here and then it will saturate, won�t generate enough magnetic flux and limit the peak output than can be achieved.

Another problem is that the rectifier diodes will get hotter with any increase in current flow, even if it is within the 35A limit of the (not brilliant) Tenere unit. That additional heat will need dissipating somehow, either by fitting a bigger heatsink and or relocation of the reg/rec unit. Alternatively source a higher spec reg/rec unit.

You may be better, fitting a split-charge system and another battery to power the extra accessories that are taking you above and beyond the charging system�s capacity. (Good luck finding the space, although at least you can get dry batteries now that can be mounted side-ways and up-side-down). A dual battery system isn�t going to give you more power necessarily, but what it will do is ensure the bikes essential circuits for running will always have power and you won�t get caught out. Split charging also means you don�t need to upgrade any wiring, you just fit a new loom to supply the extra equipment from the second deep-cycle battery, rather than having to beef up the whole bike�s wiring. Plus it'll be easier to do, can be fitted/removed just for a big trip or when needed.

All of the above is complex, adds additional weight and complexity. Are you need the extra power? Why not just work round what you've got more efficiently?
  # 5  
Old 02-11-13, 09:59
Jami Jami is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleiades View Post
Theoretically you can change the stator windings on an alternator to produce a higher peak output, but in most cases this will adversely affect the low rpm output of the alternator. If you go too far searching for higher peak outputs, you can actually end up with a discharge at idle and low speeds. In order to increase output across the entire range of speeds, the alternator needs significant modification to stator and rotor.

The simple way to achieve a higher output is to put fewer windings of a heavier gauge wire on the stator, which reduces the impedance and allows more current flow. Even that only works if the is enough magnetic flux to excite the windings. More windings of thinner gauge wire make more efficient use of lower magnetic flux and give better performance at low rpm, but give a lower overall output. It’s not easy balancing the two.

It’s not just the stator than needs modifying. The size of the rotor’s iron core together with its field windings is another problem, and you can’t easily change that on a motorcycle alternator. Not enough core/windings here and then it will saturate, won’t generate enough magnetic flux and limit the peak output than can be achieved.

Another problem is that the rectifier diodes will get hotter with any increase in current flow, even if it is within the 35A limit of the (not brilliant) Tenere unit. That additional heat will need dissipating somehow, either by fitting a bigger heatsink and or relocation of the reg/rec unit. Alternatively source a higher spec reg/rec unit.

You may be better, fitting a split-charge system and another battery to power the extra accessories that are taking you above and beyond the charging system’s capacity. (Good luck finding the space, although at least you can get dry batteries now that can be mounted side-ways and up-side-down). A dual battery system isn’t going to give you more power necessarily, but what it will do is ensure the bikes essential circuits for running will always have power and you won’t get caught out. Split charging also means you don’t need to upgrade any wiring, you just fit a new loom to supply the extra equipment from the second deep-cycle battery, rather than having to beef up the whole bike’s wiring. Plus it'll be easier to do, can be fitted/removed just for a big trip or when needed.

All of the above is complex, adds additional weight and complexity. Are you need the extra power? Why not just work round what you've got more efficiently?
Thanks for the great answer, a lot to think about there. Regarding to the reg/rec unit it came to mind that all of that extra power would be only be used at sub zero temperatures so there might be enough cooling due to that.

Although I'm a Finn and not complaining about cold, I gotta admit that the blood flow on my toes and fingers could be a lot better. So unless I'll get some really bulky boots and overalls, I sure need the heated grips, socks and a vest to ride in January. Right now I can use two at a time. The temperatures could go as low as -30 degrees C but I reckon I won't use my bike below -15, just for the sake of the bike. And myself.

I have been thinking about extra batteries as well, such as small Li-ion ones and would keep them in the pockets of my jacket just to keep them warm. And no need for an extra circuit since I could just plug the vest and/or socks directly to those batteries.

Working around what I got more efficiently, that's a good point too. It temps me to put a switch to the headlight so I could take it off while riding daytime and just use the 10w LED extra light I got for visibility. That 45w save in power would be enough for my plans. This I will most likely do but let's here some more ideas first.

Jami
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  # 6  
Old 02-11-13, 10:08
Pleiades Pleiades is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jami View Post
Working around what I got more efficiently, that's a good point too. It temps me to put a switch to the headlight so I could take it off while riding daytime and just use the 10w LED extra light I got for visibility. That 45w save in power would be enough for my plans. This I will most likely do but let's here some more ideas first.
I think that would be the way to go. Putting a switch in to turn the headlight off and using a pair of 10W LED driving lights, DRLs during the daytime (to cover local law on visibility/daytime lighting) is something well worth considering. Improving efficiency is definitely the most cost effective way (and cheapest) of getting round power shortfalls.
  # 7  
Old 02-11-13, 10:10
Petenz Petenz is offline
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After reading Pleiades post...
I think being able to switch your head & tail light off would be my first
place to look for the extra power..

which I have done on my XTR... cut the low beam + wire put a switch in
then unpluged the tail light from the loom run a wire from the new switch to the tail light wire..
So both low beam & tail light are now switched...
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  # 8  
Old 02-11-13, 10:30
Jami Jami is offline
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That would do the trick for the trip to Spain and general riding in daylight. However, during winter, the period of daylight isn't that long for us so would be nice to have decent lights. But I agree, this is the best solution so far.

But then again for riding in dark I could use the motocross helmet I got in which I put a 900 lumen LED light which I use for riding my YZ250F in the forest on those dark winter hours. It's very good for that but when used on roads, the other road users might hate it ;-).

Jami
  # 9  
Old 02-11-13, 13:26
duibhceK duibhceK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jami View Post
I sure need the heated grips, socks and a vest to ride in January.
If you want to make the most of the little power that is available, it is maybe better to go for heated (under-)gloves than for heated grips. They are a lot more efficient in getting your hands warm.
  # 10  
Old 02-11-13, 14:15
Jami Jami is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duibhceK View Post
If you want to make the most of the little power that is available, it is maybe better to go for heated (under-)gloves than for heated grips. They are a lot more efficient in getting your hands warm.
That is true but I already got the wind protectors for the handlebar, you know these kind of things: http://www.mikakallio.com/mikakallio...%20nettiin.jpg

So that combined with heated grips should do it no matter how cold it is.

Jami
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