DNA Stage 1 Versus K&N Stage 1 - THE FACTS - .: XT660.com

CaptMoto · # 1 06-04-09, 17:24

Ok ladies and gentlemen, I have just finished talking to Dino of DNA in regards to what he will use this thread for, and that is to show results of tests carried out by many testers, which will explain the performance differences obtained by these two filters, and finally to give some accurate details. on this long going debate as to which of the two filter is the better one.

Do not think for a minute that DNA would be biased in promoting his filters as the favourites ones because most of the tests have been carried out by third parties and independent magazines sources.

Dino who will shortly come and give his evidences and please in the meantime wait for what he has got to show us before asking questions. Thanks

Over to you Dino

maxwell123455 · # 2 06-04-09, 17:35

Cant wait to see this, personally before ive even seen it all i cant see there being a massive difference between the different types of filters but i may be proved wrong.

and needless to say ive gone the other way and have a K&N filter stg 1

DNA · # 3 06-04-09, 19:43

Hi Guys,
Following your request I have finally put together a presentation of the DNA P-Y6E04-01 Stage 1 filter compared back to back with the K&N YA-6604 Stage 1 filter, a nd more useful information that will help you tune the XT 660 R /X.

The results are very impressive and enlightening.
All the air flow tests took place the same day on DNA�s Rotronics Computerized FlowBench, the test pressure was 1,5� inches of water and the results corrected to 25� celcius.
1. Presentation of the air filters:

a) Stock Yamaha air filter, single layer paper non-reusable air filter
b) K&N YA-6604 air filter, 4 layer cotton oil impregnated reusable air filter
c) DNA P-Y6E04-01 air filter, 4 layer cotton oil impregnated reusable air filter

2. Air Filter Design (see attached files)

a) The K&N YA-6604 air filter:
Media material 4 layers of K&N cotton
Number of pleats 11
Pleat Height 21 mm
Active Pleat length 115mm*
Pleat Pitch 6,36mm*
Oil volume 7ml
Total active filtering surface 53.130�mm*
� * as measured from the K&N sample filter we purchased.

b) The DNA P-Y6E04-01 air filter:
Media material 4 layers of DNA cotton
Number of pleats 9
Pleat Height 31 mm
Active Pleat length 124mm
Pleat Pitch 10mm
Oil volume 16,3ml
Total active filtering surface 69.192�mm

As we can see the DNA filter has larger pleat height 31mm(K&N 21mm), the pleat pitch is 10mm(K&N 6.36mm), the amount of oil DNA uses is more than double, and the most important +30.23% more active filtering surface..! for the same application.

At this point I must explain that the pitch of the DNA material is calculated taking under consideration many different variables; we use a specially developed algorithm and the final design varies from application to application. Even 0.1 of a mm can make a very big difference in airflow, speed of the air stream at the surface of the filter, turbulence and many more details that we can�t mention for obvious reasons.

So already from the start we have 2 very different air filters!

Let�s continue with the tests.

3. Absolute AIR FLOW tests: the filters are tested out of the air box on a custom made plenum; nothing causes turbulence or restrictions to the air flow
(see attachments).
The result is solely what the filter can give.

a) Stock Yamaha Paper Air filter
70.42 CFM @ 1.5� of H�O

b) K&N YA-6604
92.18 CFM @ 1.5� of H�O
+30.9% over stock

c) DNA P-Y6E04-01
122.4 CFM @ 1.5� of H�O
+73.81% over stock
+32.78% over K&N�?

4. Air Box AIR FLOW tests: the filters are tested inside the stock Yamaha air box,
To eliminate the losses (restriction) that the stock throttle body could cause we used a 48.6mm throttle body without the butterfly; the absolute largest that could be connected to the XT 660 Rubber trumpet.
Air box restrictions, shape, resonance, position of the air filter, if the design of the air filter suits the design of the air box and many more variables play an important role now.
Also I have added the Volumetric Efficiency (VE), of the XT 660 Engine, that occurs for every configuration, if the tuner takes 100% advantage of the extra flow.

a) Test 1:
Air box & std filter & snorkel
46.53 CFM (1318 lit/min) VE=0.539

b) Test 2:
Air box & K&N filter & snorkel
52.51 CFM (1486 lit/min) VE=0.608

c) Test 3:
Air box & DNA filter & snorkel
57.19 CFM (1619 lit/min) VE=0.663

d) Test 4:
Air box & DNA filter & Without snorkel
59.52 CFM (1685 lit/min) VE=0.690

e) Test 5:
Air box & DNA filter & DNA Stage 2 filter & snorkel
79.19 CFM (2242 lit/min) VE=0.918

f) Test 6:
Air box & DNA filter & DNA Stage 2 filter Without snorkel
79.89 CFM (2262 lit/min) VE=0.926

g) Test 7:
Air box all open Without filters, side cover, snorkel
(this test is for reference only the bike can�t be used on the road in this state)
88.6 CFM (2509 lit/min) VE=1.027

Finishing our detailed tests clearly the conclusion is That the DNA stage 1 filter is NOT the same filter as the K&N as the overall difference is Massive.

Also you can see why the fueling must be adjusted when going stage 2 and why you can get away with it, when removing only the snorkel.

I would like to thank to all the forum members for their attention, I hope everyone will enjoy the above info.

looking forward to hear your comments and start a discussion.
Best regards

Dino Nikolaidis

contrarian · # 4 06-04-09, 21:09

Wow, didn't know there is such a difference in design between the two. I am now glad I got the DNA in the first place.

P.S. Personally, I can't wait for the Stage III�

marjani · # 5 06-04-09, 21:45

Dino, thanks a lot for this essential information. For me this information is very usefull.

Thanks again!

Marcel

JMo · # 6 06-04-09, 21:55

Yes, thank you for those results Dino - impressive!

Will you be doing a similar comparison test regarding the drum type filter for the XT660Z Tenere?

xxx

CaptMoto · # 7 06-04-09, 21:41

Personally, I have to say that after reading Dino's post and see the attached charts and pics, my jaw has totally dropped in amazement because I myself up to this moment was under the impression that when it came to the stage one filter there wasn't much difference between K&N and DNA but this post has more than proved me wrong.

All I can say is

Kev · # 8 08-04-09, 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by DNA

Hi Guys,
Following your request I have finally put together a presentation of the DNA P-Y6E04-01 Stage 1 filter compared back to back with the K&N YA-6604 Stage 1 filter, a nd more useful information that will help you tune the XT 660 R /X.

The results are very impressive and enlightening.
All the air flow tests took place the same day on DNA’s Rotronics Computerized FlowBench, the test pressure was 1,5” inches of water and the results corrected to 25� celcius.
1. Presentation of the air filters:

a) Stock Yamaha air filter, single layer paper non-reusable air filter
b) K&N YA-6604 air filter, 4 layer cotton oil impregnated reusable air filter
c) DNA P-Y6E04-01 air filter, 4 layer cotton oil impregnated reusable air filter

2. Air Filter Design (see attached files)

a) The K&N YA-6604 air filter:
Media material 4 layers of K&N cotton
Number of pleats 11
Pleat Height 21 mm
Active Pleat length 115mm*
Pleat Pitch 6,36mm*
Oil volume 7ml
Total active filtering surface 53.130�mm*
� * as measured from the K&N sample filter we purchased.

b) The DNA P-Y6E04-01 air filter:
Media material 4 layers of DNA cotton
Number of pleats 9
Pleat Height 31 mm
Active Pleat length 124mm
Pleat Pitch 10mm
Oil volume 16,3ml
Total active filtering surface 69.192�mm

As we can see the DNA filter has larger pleat height 31mm(K&N 21mm), the pleat pitch is 10mm(K&N 6.36mm), the amount of oil DNA uses is more than double, and the most important +30.23% more active filtering surface..! for the same application.

At this point I must explain that the pitch of the DNA material is calculated taking under consideration many different variables; we use a specially developed algorithm and the final design varies from application to application. Even 0.1 of a mm can make a very big difference in airflow, speed of the air stream at the surface of the filter, turbulence and many more details that we can’t mention for obvious reasons.

So already from the start we have 2 very different air filters!

Let’s continue with the tests.

3. Absolute AIR FLOW tests: the filters are tested out of the air box on a custom made plenum; nothing causes turbulence or restrictions to the air flow
(see attachments).
The result is solely what the filter can give.

a) Stock Yamaha Paper Air filter
70.42 CFM @ 1.5” of H�O

b) K&N YA-6604
92.18 CFM @ 1.5” of H�O
+30.9% over stock

c) DNA P-Y6E04-01
122.4 CFM @ 1.5” of H�O
+73.81% over stock
+32.78% over K&N…?

4. Air Box AIR FLOW tests: the filters are tested inside the stock Yamaha air box,
To eliminate the losses (restriction) that the stock throttle body could cause we used a 48.6mm throttle body without the butterfly; the absolute largest that could be connected to the XT 660 Rubber trumpet.
Air box restrictions, shape, resonance, position of the air filter, if the design of the air filter suits the design of the air box and many more variables play an important role now.
Also I have added the Volumetric Efficiency (VE), of the XT 660 Engine, that occurs for every configuration, if the tuner takes 100% advantage of the extra flow.

a) Test 1:
Air box & std filter & snorkel
46.53 CFM (1318 lit/min) VE=0.539

b) Test 2:
Air box & K&N filter & snorkel
52.51 CFM (1486 lit/min) VE=0.608

c) Test 3:
Air box & DNA filter & snorkel
57.19 CFM (1619 lit/min) VE=0.663

d) Test 4:
Air box & DNA filter & Without snorkel
59.52 CFM (1685 lit/min) VE=0.690

e) Test 5:
Air box & DNA filter & DNA Stage 2 filter & snorkel
79.19 CFM (2242 lit/min) VE=0.918

f) Test 6:
Air box & DNA filter & DNA Stage 2 filter Without snorkel
79.89 CFM (2262 lit/min) VE=0.926

g) Test 7:
Air box all open Without filters, side cover, snorkel
(this test is for reference only the bike can’t be used on the road in this state)
88.6 CFM (2509 lit/min) VE=1.027

Finishing our detailed tests clearly the conclusion is That the DNA stage 1 filter is NOT the same filter as the K&N as the overall difference is Massive.

Also you can see why the fueling must be adjusted when going stage 2 and why you can get away with it, when removing only the snorkel.

I would like to thank to all the forum members for their attention, I hope everyone will enjoy the above info.

looking forward to hear your comments and start a discussion.
Best regards

Dino Nikolaidis

Love the tests, great work Dino. I must have missed these results yesterday when I posted. What I did like is you used a 4.6mm bigger throttle body then the standard XT 44mm, which would really show the future potential of your filters when modding a motor.

I did similar tests on the Dyno on what HP do you get with each mod http://www.xt660.com/showthread.php?t=4509

Kev · # 9 08-04-09, 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kev

Love the tests, great work Dino. I must have missed these results yesterday when I posted.

I did simular tests on the Dyno on what HP do you get with each mod http://www.xt660.com/showthread.php?t=4509

Just to give you some info the Raptor boys are flowing 130CFM with their +2mm valves, big bore, high lift cams & strocked +3mm throttle bodies, motors producing over 80HP, thats nearly double our 45HP & air flow of a standard XT.

So when I see we only have max 88CFM left in the air box, this tells me for bigger builds we need a newly designed airbox.

DNA · # 10 09-04-09, 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kev

Just to give you some info the Raptor boys are flowing 130CFM with their +2mm valves, big bore, high lift cams & strocked +3mm throttle bodies, motors producing over 80HP, thats nearly double our 45HP & air flow of a standard XT.

So when I see we only have max 88CFM left in the air box, this tells me for bigger builds we need a newly designed airbox.

Hi Kev,
Nice to see you are back again,
Yes it is amazing how the data show what is happening in the real world!
The stock air box and filter configuration has a Volumetric Efficiency of 0.539 @ 7400 rpm,
Compared to the completely open air box without anything inside and 4mm plus throttle body that has a VE of 1.027( almost impossible for a naturally aspirated engine) , gives us a theoretical power of 85.75 hp!
Ok this can only happen in a perfect world, but 80 hp is very close!!
Can you please give me the following info concerning the raptor mods:
1. RPM the the motor rev to, will it be 7400 or more?
2. The cfm that you mentioned is what the head flows? And if yes at what pressure? (inches of water or millibars, would do).
3. The stage 3 DNA air box will have interchangeable aluminum trumpets(velocity stacks) to help tune the length, could you please specify the internal diameters that could be useful and cover the Raptor etc. mods?

We are already working on the DNA Stage 3 air box, as soon as we will have the complete prototype I will start a new thread and post details, photos etc.
Regards,
Dino

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