Hello! I'm a fairly new XT660Z owner, been riding it for 3000km or so and found it a great bike. I have a problem though, but it's not the bike... It's me. In fact, I like to drive it swiftly and enjoy tight-cornering at slower speeds just to pull out all the torque it has afterwards, which puts smiles on my face, but past a certain speed I experience a total loss of confidence in leaning. I can't help but picture my front wheel sliding away and the whole subsequent crash scene... What can I do? My body just won't move past a certain angle, leading me to dangerously approach the outer part of a turn. My tires talk clearly: I'm nowhere nere the limit of them, and I must say the are brand new really good road tires (Dunlop Trail max TR91).

Can someone advise? I kind of find it embarrassing, but most of all the danger while riding and facing an unforseen turn late is real.

I can only suggest a track day or a advance riding course. Here in the UK it is available through a number of organizations. Having ridden bikes for many years it took some time for me to get use to the TEN and single cylinder.
The advance course not only taught me to ride better it helped me ride my TEN better. Hope that helps......

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Can only say to just relax and never lock your arms in, hang lose as they say and look to where you want to go.
Practice being smooth rolling on the power and all else and build up confidence.
A good trick is to point your elbow into the corner, crouch forward a little and lean your shoulder/upper body in (applies to road only) and enjoy.
Don't worry these bikes handle great, just stay focused, look through the corner and relax.

Fidn a friend who you trust who has their own bike.

Then follow them. It's all about you not knowing what your bike can do becasue you have not done it yet.

Stop worrying about leaning....follow a friend and keep up with him..no too fast but brisk. To keep up with him you will have to lean.

try it.

Mike

It's not a problem, it is a lack of understanding. Improving your understanding will increase your skill and give you confidence.

First of all - don't be embarrassed. Alive and embarrassed is better than a dead hero.

OK, advising someone on their riding can be very dangerous without seeing them, helping them understand and most importantly showing them. But I'll give it a go....


First off all, it is not your body that controls the lean of the bike. It is your steering. Without knowing, when you enter a corner, you actually steer the wrong way - except for certain conditions, you cannot steer a bike around a corner fast, it is very different to a car (or quad).

When you enter a corner you will steer towards the outside of the corner, this (through a whole load of physics theories) will cause the bike to lean into the corner - we call it positive steering (you will also hear the term 'counter steer'). The more you steer out of the corner, the more the bike will lean into, and the tighter the turn will become.

You need to learn this. The best way, find a quiet road with long sweeping corners that you can see to be clear. approach the corner in a road position that you feel comfortable with and keep you body upright and as stiff as you can. As you approach the corner push one side of the handlebars (the side in the direction you wish to travel), so if it a bend to the right, push the right bar forward. You will feel the bike start to lean and turn to the right. On left bends, push the left bar.

The more you push the bars = tighter cornering.

Start gently, and remember to push the bars for corners, you will find that you are turning the bike tighter, therefore you will be able to corner faster.


IMPORTANT - Do not just try to go fast round corners for the sake of it, the next steps are much more important ....

Position

This is the singular most important part of cornering.

You should enter a corner as far to the outside as is safe (depending on which side of the road you ride, remember vehicles could be coming the other way!)

Speed - Never go faster than you feel comfortable with.

You need to get the entry speed right, start off slow and increase as your cornering confidence grows.

Watch the vanishing point - this is the view along the road where the left side of the road and the right side meet, or form a point. This is the vanishing point. The Vanishing point tells you how fast to go.

As the vanishing point moves away from you, you can accelerate, as the point comes closer to you, you slow down (in corner, if you get your speed wrong,you can use your rear brake gently to slow, this also has the effect of 'tightening' the corner, or making the bike turn a little quicker).

So far so good.....

When you enter a corner, look for the exit point, the piece of road you want to ride out of the corner on. Use your Positive Steering to turn the bike. As the bike turns, you need to increase the throttle a little to compensate for the loss in speed due to corner forces (the science/physics thing)

There is a phenomenon called 'Target Fixation' whereby the bike will go where you look. It is something we can use if we get into trouble - look at the gap and look hard if you are loosing control, you will end up where you look!.

We can also use Target Fixation to improve our cornering. As you turn in the corner, look at the exit point, you will go there.

Exiting

You need to exit the corner in the right road position for the next corner. If this is a straight, then position yourself for the straight. Different circumstances will dictate the safe place to exit the corner.

Bringing it all together

1. As you approach the corner - Get into the right road position
2. Look for the Vanishing Point, adjust your speed so you have no need to brake mid corner
3. Use Positive Steering to turn the bike in the corner, looking at your exit point
4. Start to increase your speed as the bike turns, gently at first - you will improve with practice
5. When the bike straightens upright, you can give it maximum power
6. Line yourself up for your next corner

These are techniques given at an advanced level, which is why it is dangerous to use them without instruction. Start slowly and you will become more confident and much smoother in your cornering. You will find that you can corner fast without actually going fast. The most important part is your position before the corner, get that right and your cornering will be very quick, get it wrong and you'll loose speed, loos stability , slow down or maybe even crash!!

What I've briefly explained above has lots of things missing, and would take a lot of hours instruction to get right. Give it a go, come back and tell us how you've improved your skill and confidence.

Ride Safe.

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Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Well GLUG, you provided a really great explanation of on-road cornering. Thank you!

I tend to be consciously aware of positive steering out on the tar - but I seem to do things differently on dirt roads. After reading your post, I found myself over-thinking it out on the dirt trails last weekend and lost a bit of confidence. I was deliberately trying the inside bar 'push' technique on the dirt and it feels like my front wheel is gonna wash out, yet my old technique of elbows up, weight forward, pushing down on the outside of the bar to plant the front wheel - seems a bit at odds with the physics of steering you detailed in your post.

I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on steering on loose dirt trails (not necessarily on the MX track but just the loose gravel forestry tracks that is the domain of our bikes).

We're never too old to learn and pick up new skills!
Cheers!

I'm not really the guy to explain this, but.....

Positive steering (or Counter steering as it was known) works because the rubber on the inside of the tyre (in a lean, so the inside of the turn you are making) travels slower than the outside, it's called the rolling cone effect, this is part of the physics that make the bike change direction.
On dirt, you don't have constant contact with the ground and where you do, it's all moving, so while people experience what looks like positive steering in corners on Enduro, MX or Speedway tracks, this is a move that is responding to the turn, preventing the rear washing out, rather than inducing it. On the road, it is the counter steer that induces the turn. This is where you felt the front was about to wash out - it probably was!! You get the turn by bearing down on the bars and hold the steering in the direction you want to go.

Using knobbly tyres on the road you get to see this demonstrated, I see it always on worn TKCs. I can counter steer to induce the turn, but then it requires some weight on the bars to push the bike around the corner. Almost a case of steer out of the corner to induce the turn, then into the corner to bring the bike round. The TTR600 was like this always on the road, especially roundabouts.

So while positive steering works perfectly on road bikes, with lots of rubber in contact, as you move to more aggressive tyres, the effects are not quite as obvious.

The good thing is, it all really happens without any though - the more you think about it , the hard it gets sometimes.

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Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Come and have a lesson with the best bike school in Italy RunxFun. Call Luca Viola on 348 3311582 or me Simon on 333 8153190 for details. Ciao Simon

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(Now sold on, sob) 2011 Blue XT660X with gold wheels, was 26,500 km.
Engine mods: K&N Stage 1 filter, DNA Stage 2 filter, snorkel removed, Kev fuel mod fitted.
Plus: smoked Puig screen, Yam aluminium sump guard, Yamaha / Acerbis handguards, Givi Trekker aluminium side cases, Leo Vince X3 cans plus Kev front fork mod and Fender Xtender. Just fitted Michelin Road Pilot 3 tyres.

SOLD the XTX for a Super Ten 1200. And just bought a Raptor 700 so staying on here for some tips....

I have never had great success of getting round corners with anything bigger than a 17" front wheel and hence why I went to a great deal of hassle to fit a 17" to my 955 Tiger,previous to that I'd had two Africa Twins with 21" and two previous Tigers with 19" when the penny dropped.

Big wheels don't turn it's not you!!!.

If you now a good sport bike rider get him to ride pillion, you wil soon lean because he will do it for you.