just some thoughts on yamahas position in the adventure bike market. at intermot yamaha revealed almost ****** all, is the 660 tenere due an update, yes we all know and love the bike but its been out nearly 6 years and BMW have updated theirs, husqvarna have joined the show and yamaha seem to be stuck on a desert island. you can argue that it doesnt need updating but im afraid new customers will look at whether a model is ageing prior to making a decision. i love my xt660z but after riding the sertao yesterday back to back, it made my tenere feel like an antique, the sertao is in a completely different league in terms of engine and gearbox smoothness, i couldnt even believe it was a single. i wont be changing my ten because i love the ruggedness, looks and sound of it.

I live by a simple mantra. - If its not broke, it doesn't need fixed.

I am though, somewhat alone in my thoughts in most cases.

I suppose it's the field I work in, makes me cynical about anything new.

The ethos of the XT is simple, bulletproof and easy to service/fix on the roadside. There's not many bikes out there that can boast the same...

As i say, i'm in a minority and i think you are probably correct, without a new look many people will look elsewhere, to something new and shiny.

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Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

I'm with the GULG and firmly in the "if it ain't broke then don't fix it" camp. However, I can see Yamaha doing a face lift on the 660 soon, giving it the fairing style of the 1200 (as they have done with the foreign market only 250), if nothing else to give the Tenere range a more homogeneous look.

Now that's interesting? I rode a Sertao demo (from Balderstons in Peterborough) in the summer and thought the suspension was pretty dreadful, far worse than a stock Ten (and that's saying something); the Sertao also felt far more fragile and flimsily built too! I agree the engine is a bit smoother, but that's basically down to the lighter flywheel on the Rotax derived, Chinese built "BMW" unit; as a trade off for that smoothness the Sertao felt slightly gutless and less punchy. Plus, let's not forget the Sertao is basically a bike designed in 1993 as the Funduro - now that would be antiquated?

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I know from experience that the Rotax engine eats its water pump. Luckily not my school fees but a mate I helped out to fix his BMW F650GS. He blew a gasket and had to have a top end rebuilt, new radiator and new water pump just because of a fatal design flaw

The Sertao isn't exactly a new bike. It is a renamed Dakar.

The Tenere is therefore the newer bike!

I owned a 2004 Dakar. The engine was smoother than the XT, but other than that I can't think of any way it was better. And the water pump failed on my Dakar, the cylinder head warped and it leaked oil and water. All within 18 months from new.

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What I see that BMW is trying to do to the F650 line is to give it a "facelift." Bold new graphics, a new name, and a massaged motor. The little Tenere doesn't need any that, except maybe the motor treatment. But that may make it less reliable.

I've owned two BMW 650s, vicariously, through my significant others. Both Rotax powerplants were bulletproof, and the bikes did quite well, for being abused by two fairly new riders.

I also owned a BMW Xchallenge, Rotax powered, and it was a reliable motor for 31,000 U.S. miles before I sold it.

That being said, my Tenere is a stronger, better built bike than all three of those bikes. All the BMWs had nitpicky problems, welded brackets falling off the frames (brake line holder, exhaust hanger) burned out heated grips, etc.

So far nothing has fallen off my bike and I've had no electrical problems with it, despite my daily use of it, riding on dirt and paved roads.

I agree with GULG; "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

their was a report in mcn on the bmw as part of their long term fleet one went back and they give him a new one since then its dropped to bits the beaky thing has snapped off twice , think i will keep me ten