snorkel removed
 

I have a complete stock 2008 XT660X. Just removed the snorkel on it,didnt change anything else and must say that there is a noticable diffrence in performance gain. Not much,but in the lower revs it pulls slightly better. Am gonna order the stage 1 & 2 aircleaners from OTR now. Still waiting on the MTC 2into1 exhausts to be available. Have just tried to order the KEV fuel mod from the forum but I can't seem to get my paypall account registered...

Anyway... You can definatly feel that there is alot more power in that engine than the way it rides coming from that factory floor...
Why don't they make em with good filters and exhausts stock???
But then again... You won't have the fun of modifying it yourself. :)

Stage 1&2 DNA filters ordered,check.
Diden't want to wait for the 2into1 so 2into2 exhaust ordered,check.
Fuel mod ordered,check.

Hope everything gets here before end of the week and then I'm gonna have a fun weekend :)

Now just having to explain to the misses...
Start doing the dishes...CHECK

Welcome to he forum, mate.
Great choice. Once you have done a all the mods you will find yourself owning completely different bike.

Good luck.

Hope you've ordered an O2 controller too for that full-flavoured experience? ;)

Euhm,no... What does it do and what's the diffrence?

I have owned alot of bikes before. Everything from naked bikes to fully custom build choppers,to race bikes and even stuntbikes... Practically all I do is tear apart and rebuild bikes... :)
But I have to say,this XT660X is by far the must fun bike I have ever had.
I bought it as an everyday ride because I'm quite tall 1m94 and all my other bikes,specially my choppers are too small for me and give me back problems if I ride em everyday.
After spending one day on the XT I even sold my car cause it rides so well. :)
Finally a bike that's big enough for me!!! And the handling and brakes!!!
When you're used to riding a Harley this is heaven. After 5 corners on that thing I was allready going round the bends flat on the side,one foot sticking out and I can stop it on a penny. Only prob was a little lack of power and the awfull lawnmower sound of those huge pipes but this will be sorted soon :)
And the afwul blue colour... Still looking for some diffrent plastics and a black seat cover

Very true but ask yourself the question? are you in it for the long term!! because if you are buy a PC new or secondhand and don't forget the holes in the airbox you'll end up with a bike a world away from a stocker.

I plan on keeping this bike. it's way to handy as a everyday ride. But yesterday I spend over 600euro's on filters,exhaust,fuel mod and some stuff to make a tail tidy... PC is a little over the budget right now. Just spend 4000euro on that bike last week. Gotta stop somewhere before my wife kills me :)
besides,if so many people use the fuel mod I imagine it'll do the job not?
It's not a race bike,I use it everyday to commute.

however,I am still doubting to fit the PC. Am a little worried about damaging my engine. Anybody ever had engine troubles after using the mod and doing serious milage?

The O2 controller fixes the A/F ratio at 13.6:1 in the closed loop. Without an O2 controller the closed loop is controlled by the 02 sensor and ECU and kept to a ridiculously weak 14.7:1 in the closed loop.

The catch is, when you fit a fuelling mod, it will quite successfully control the open loop fuelling (so you can achieve an ideal 13.2-13.6:1 A/F ratio) but it will do nothing for the closed loop fuelling. Basically whenever the conditions dictate that the ECU operates in the closed loop (low rpms, small throttle openings, cruising etc.) your bike is going to be hamstrung with a weak A/F ratio.

Fitting an O2 controller will give you better control of the fuelling in all conditions - it takes it out of the hands of the ECU.

What this all means in real life (on the road) is that the bike will pull much more smoothly from lower revs and give you a much broader spread of power, as well as increasing the usable rev range of the motor.

I used Kev's fuelling mod for four and a bit years on the Tenere, covering somewhere in the region of 20K miles without the slightest problem. For the last two and a half of those years I ran Kev's O2 controller as well, again without issue. They are both brilliant mods and WILL make a big real world difference to the way your XT runs. The best thing is, they are both cheap at around �100 together - you get a lot of satisfaction for your money. :D

I have had a PCV and O2 Optimizer fitted for a while now, and use a custom map built on the dyno. This set up is better, but I would say from experience, only if you visit a dyno centre and get a custom built map. All in all I think it cost me around the �500 mark - not exactly cheap!

A PCV is the perfect solution, but is it �400 better than using Kev's mods? Probably not. In terms of "bang for your buck", Kev's mods are hard to beat and offer an excellent balance between performance and financial outlay.

I guess the answer to your doubts is really down to how deep your pockets are... and how tolerant your missus is! ;)

Having had a fuel mod on mine to start with I'd agree with the above having a PC now fitted would I go back?? never in a million years what a fuel mod does is make the bike run quicker but it won't stop the hunting off the fuel injection and that will drive you nuts in the end.

As for paying �500 theirs me thinking you were smarter than the average bear!! mine cost me �150 all in well actually it cost less than that but I've rounded it up.

Blimey! You got a PCV, O2 Optimizer and a dyno session to build a custom map, all for �150! You're either very lucky, or very good with your money, or both for that matter! ;)

Under normal circumstances I'm well connected for engine mapping but too be honest I'll use the quote said to me last year 'Power Commanders are old hat' and if you look at the likes of Rexxer you'll understand why with no PC no installation and no need for a dyno run it's all about a direct map straight into the ECU maps have come on in leaps and bounds in the last 2 years the it's not life and death to have a dyno run anymore.

I digress I bought my PC as job lot of parts I'd seen the PC for sale I asked about the spec of the bike including the map that was in it(same as mine) anyone else can do the same I don't have to pay to put a bike on a dyno but the bike runs that well I've never bothered that was 4000 miles ago.

You will know as others with a PC there's a touch more pull from the motor but the big plus it just makes the bike a joy to ride there's no hunting from the motor it's good on the over run which brings us back to 'Are you in it for the long term' when I realised I was I took the fuel mod off and fitted the PC just one of the many things that you have to do to turn an XT in a more serious bike be it commuting or other wise.

Thank you all for the helpfull comments. I was mailing with OTR about the PCV.
A set of those in a package with a O2 optimizer will cost me about 320euro with shipping. But they tell me it is plug and play... With wich I presume I can hook it up and my bike will run well. Is it needed to go to a dyno center to have it fitted with a custom map? I don't know where there is a dyno center around here and what the cost would be to have it done...
Decisions,decisions...... so difficult. I woulden't mind spending the extra bucks if it's really worth it. I allready ordered the fuel mod and that's payed for but now I've learned that I should have the O2optimizer also witch I diden't knew. Combine those two together and I'm around 120euros. Spending another 200 on the PC is not such a huge prob alsong as it's worth it. The question is...does it make that big of a diffrence? And if I spend the extra money,will it eventually cost me more to have the custom map? Maybe I'll be able to sell the Fuel mod on the forum if I'm not using it

I would always recommend a PCV I have them on all my bikes, there is nothing better than a custom map for your own bike built on a Dyno. I build around to 15 custom maps a year on my bikes testing all sorts of performance mods, I also have a Auto Tune AT-300, Wideband commander 1 & 2 they are not as good as a custom map built on a Dyno, I have back to back Dyno results proving a Auto Tune does not map a bike as well as a custom Dyno map, I could go into all the details if you want to know but we will be here a long time.

If you have the funds the PCV is the route to go, one very important things is a map that works well in the UK that same PCV map will not work well in Australia on our fuels, every bike is different, we all live at different altitudes, we all have different ambient air temps & the most important thing that affects the A/F ratio's is the different blends of fuel in different countries & I an not talking about the RON rating, the fuel blends & additives affects the way the fuel burns in the cylinder & makes a big difference to the way a bike runs, so the morel of this story is if you chose to use a shared map chose one from your region.

Thx for all the info. For now I'll go with the fuel mod and O2 controller that I ordered from you. Exhausts should be here tomorrow and DHL just delivered my DNA stage 1&2 filters and a set of mini LED turnsignals. Just removed stock exhausts and tail. Now gonna do some cutting and make me a tiny tail... :)

Your doing the reverse to me I did one thing at a time and rode the bike to understand what was going on it's a long winded process but it worked for me and of course at some time during this process you'll start thinking 690 SMCR which is also a complication.

Sounds like a very sensible plan - you WILL notice a big difference and feel the benefits.

A year down the line, when you've got used to it and start get itchy feet, you can sell the mods and move on to a PCV and feel the difference again.

Then later, when you get the urge to tinker again, get a custom map done and feel even more difference.

I know there's always the urge to go the "whole hog", but doing things in stages keeps you interested, busy and gives you something to look forward to.

As Kev suggests, there are just too many variables involved for a generic (or shared) PCV map to work as well as a custom one. Also, when using someone else's map, you have very little idea if the tuner who built the map knew what they were doing - there is no guarantee that it was built properly. Just here on this forum we've heard a fair few tales of tuners building iffy maps due to things like failing to block the AIS, not using Tuning Link software etc. Also there is the distinct possibility that someone, post dyno run, has been tempted to have a play with the numbers in the cells of the fuel map and they've shared something different. A bit like Chinese Whispers, every time a map changes hands the likely-hood of it having been tampered with increases. I'm pretty sure most maps are a good compromise, but you can't ever be totally sure of its provenance and whether it'll be perfect for your bike and your circumstances.

Ah, but... Have you ever considered that your XT may well run EVEN better with a dyno run and custom map? You'll never know unless you bother to try! ;)

EFI is completly new to me. I'm used to working with carbs. I have a ton of jets for most carbs. Ok,it takes some time and mostly you'll end up removing and installing your carb 10 times before you get it spot on but it's what I know and it's fairly easy doing yourself in the garage...

For the guys on here in the Uk buy a second hand PC find out what map is in it from the seller and go from there way to much scare mongering going on for me I said �150 but I bought a job lot of goodies so it probably less than that like anything on ebay have patience and take your time you'll get one at the right money in the end.

Re my map your right but my R+D is on going and right at the beginning after I'd made my mind up that I wasn't going to buy a KTM I went/going through a plan of what I wanted to do,I've been the big bore with another bike and I didn't want to go that way again.

The XT motor bless it is cooking at best the 1+2 Filters snorkel out holes in the airbox fuel mod then a PC and aftermarket exhaust is straight forward trying get the enth degree out of the motor is not whats it about for me hence why I didn't chase the number 3 filter on ebay the other week the reality is it wouldn't pull you out of bed on a good day!! but how much it weighs/brakes and steers has a far greater baring on the job and while I'm getting there there's still a long way to go as I once had said to me 'It's about unsprung weight'

I've no doubt we are the same age I've been on a pretty steep learning curve in the last 18 months I run other bikes and I've been used to fitting a PC having it mapped and hey ho but the game has moved on,go to a Ducati dealer and the customer turns ups 'Yes I want the bike serviced and blow me a Rexxer map while your at it' no dyno run end of it took some getting my head around it but when you delve into the nuts and bolts of it phewww.

Hence why instead of a PC fitting/mapping etc I had a custom Rexxer map blown into my K1200 �250 all in no piggy back to go wrong happy days.

Snorkel Removal with Stage 2 DNA
 

Hi Guys,
So I have a 2009 XTX with the MTC cans with the NitroX (Soon to be replaced with Kev mod and O2 controller) set to max and I have increased the CO at the dash by 5 points. Yesterday I fitted stage 1 and 2 DNA filters..... WOW! What a difference, pulls like a train right through the range and the Fat mid range is brill! Love the extra induction roar too and the louder pops on the over run (Read "Kid at heart").
I have read about removing the snorkel and drilling holes in the covers but is that still necessary with the stage 2 filter as I would have thought the snorkel is practically redundant now as most of the air is going to come through the stage 2 filter surely?
I have also noticed that the surging has been worse lately. I suspect its because the air temp over last few days have been around 0 degrees Celcius. Would that be right? Anyway, when the wife isn't looking at my bank balance I will be getting the O2 controller to hopefully fix this issue once and for all.
Anything else I should be looking at. Already doing the regular maintenance and chain tension checks.
Ta Brian

Plug the AIS pipe, o2 controller well worth $

Doesn't plugging the AIS reduce the popping I love so much? What else does it achieve?

Indeed it does. If you like the popping, then leave it alone.

Nothing... apart from releasing a few more unburned hydrocarbons into the atmosphere! ;)

Ha, fair enough, must be getting old me.

Mine pops like it is on beans and dried fruit. Worse than an old horse going for a run....
I quite like the popping and burping.

What causes the popping? By this I mean the popping out the exhaust pipe on deceleration.

I'd like to know the cause and some facts about it rather than someone on the internet just say, "It's fine".

My understanding is that the AIS valve (Air Injection System?) allows a small amount of air into the exhaust system to assist with burning the un-burnt fuel in that makes its way into the exhaust. This helps to reduce the bikes emissions.

Hmmmm, today was around 9 degrees C and the surging was definitely less on exactly the same commute. I would say the cold air does make quite a difference. Looking forward to seeing how the O2 controller deals with this.

On my 2011 XTX I have removed the snorkel, fitted stage 1 and 2 DNA filters, changed the std exhaust to Leo Vince, added the Kev O2 controller as well as the Kev front fork mod. For a fairly modest outlay the bike is 100 times more fun to ride, uses no more fuel than before and sounds sooooo much better. I too added most of these mods one at a time so that I could appreciate the difference. Great fun!!!!

The air injection system (AIS) is essentially an ECU controlled valve that opens and closes a pipe that goes from the filtered side of the airbox to the exhaust port downstream of the exhaust valves. The valve allows air to enter the exhaust system in order to help ignite and burn off any residual fuel that escapes from the combustion chamber on the exhaust stroke. The idea is to keep unburned fuel/hydrocarbons from reaching the catalyst and causing damage to it.

The valve opens when the throttle is closed, which is the engine condition where unburned fuel is most likely to escape into the exhaust system. The AIS valve is also fully open when the injection is operating in cold start mode, again where excess fuel in the exhaust is more likely. Being open during initial running from cold also speeds the warm up of the exhaust system, lamda and catalysts, which prevents damage and assists the bike in getting up to normal operating temperature quickly.

It is not advised to block the AIS if you are running an exhaust system with catalysts as you may shorten their life. With an aftermarket non-cat system it doesn't really matter whether you block it or not, it just depends on whether you like the popping or not? The only thing that blocking the AIS does (other than reducing the popping) is allow more unburned fuel/hydrocarbons to exit the exhaust, but as they're not tested in the UK, it doesn't really matter - unless you're an eco-warrior of course! ;)

The way the Kev mod works means its ability to adjust fuelling (A/F ratio) will be affected to some degree by changes in ambient temperature. The fact that you feel the surging returning as the outside temperature falls is nothing out of the ordinary. What you need to do is compensate by increasing the resistance (turning the knob further in a clockwise direction) when the weather is cold. I�ll try and explain what�s going on with getting too boring and delving into the physics of it all�

The Kev mod works by artificially increasing the resistance of the air intake temperature (AIT) sensor to kid the ECU into thinking it�s colder than it actually is, thereby causing the ECU to decrease the air/fuel ratio (make it richer). The resistance of the Kev mod is added in series with that of the AIT sensor. Whatever additional resistance you dial in stays fixed, whereas the resistance of the AIT sensor varies, increasing as the ambient temperature falls. The issue you are noticing arises because the extra resistance you dialled in is proportionally greater part of the total resistance at higher ambient temperatures, when the AIT sensor has a low internal resistance. As the AIT resistance increases (as air temperature falls), your setting on the Kev mod becomes proportionally less � in other words, it will have less effect on the A/F ratio and the same setting will give a weaker mixture.

If we put some numbers into the mix it might help explain things better? (BTW - The numbers aren�t the real ones, I�ve just chosen them to help make the maths easy and to exaggerate what�s going on.)

Let�s say your mod is set to 5K, it is 20C outside and the AIT sensor�s resistance is 100K, the result is you have increased the resistance by 5%. Keep the setting at 5K, let�s say the air temperature drops to 0C and the AIT sensor�s resistance rises to 200K, the net result is an increase in resistance of just 2.5%. As you can see from the figures, the same setting will not have the same effects at 0C as it will do at 20C. Therefore any given base setting on the mod will produce a progressively weakening mixture as air temperature falls; conversely the mixture will become richer as the temperature rises. All Kev�s fuelling mods are tested at 20C and so the suggested settings only apply at that ambient temperature; they are a guide. Any deviation from 20C ambient will require adjustment to compensate.

This graph illustrates what�s happening. You can easily see how the two lines converge as the temperature falls.

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/a...psc1af2c35.jpg

In real life it�s not quite as extreme as my illustration thankfully, so a moderate change in setting is all that�s needed. I found that for UK summer riding (generally around 20C) Kev�s suggested settings were fine. Below 10C I increased the setting on the knob by one increment (say from 4 o�clock to 5 o�clock), and below 0C the bike needed +2 over base to achieve the same results as in the summer (moving from 5 to 6 o�clock).

Fitting an O2 controller will also help quite a lot, because the main cause of the surging is the sudden step from closed loop fuelling to open loop fuelling and vice-versa. This step is exaggerated as ambient temperature falls and the mixture weakens due to the Kev mod having less influence on the fuelling. By fixing the closed loop at 13.6:1 with the O2 controller this �step� is all but eliminated.

I've paid for the fuel, I'm going to burn it, whatever side of the exhaust valve it is! :081:

Fantastic explanation!

+1

i have just got set of exhaust and and dna filters plus kev fuel mod do i have to remove the snorkel ???????

From what I have read on this (only had my XT 3 weeks and going through same process) if you have the Stage 2 air filter, then removing the snorkel only gives a further extremely small increase in air flow hardly making it worth while. I think, somewhere in "Kev's" links posted above you will find the air filter flow comparison tests and also the HP gains of each mod.

I haven't removed my snorkel and with the DNA stage 1 and 2 filters it made a massive difference over stock filters with everything else the same (ie cans/fuel mod/etc).

Enjoy your new (and improved) XT.

Cheers pal need to find out how to fit the fuel mod

this might be a dumb question :sad5:

so what i understand is that it's or kevin's mods of a pc right ?

both of them is not possible ?

sorry might sound stupid but i'm pretty new to this.

Yes either the one or the other (Kev mod OR Power Commander) for setting the fuel mixture. The O2 is off course separate and I believe works with both.
PS Just did the stage 2 filter and kev mod and O2 last night. Tonight is the test so quite nervous at this point.