Yes theres no need to go to bigger exhaust valves

Steve...will you have enough room for the liner and a 105.5mm piston?

it will be close to the water jacket.....

Rev Limiter

Dynojet haven't got anything that will up the rev limit.

The only thing they suggested is to get a Stand Alone ECU......but they are �600......

So, I am trying other alternatives. I have looked at Ecu Flashing, but no-one has the stuff for the Denso Ecu. Although maybe in New Year there will be the technology.

And I don't have much faith in the Magnum -type rev limiters.

So, does anyone know how to up the rev limit on a XT660, WITHOUT running a special ECU?

only thing I can think of is to wire up a raptor ECU.

I'm sure that so long as you can get a pinout diagram of the XT and Raptor's ECU connectors and where what electrical connection from 'soandso device goes there' and so long as the vital information is still available to the Raptor ECU, I don't see a reason why it shouldn't?

Just because they may be different connectors, fundamentally, they wont be much different internally.

They both still need a feed from all the same sensors and everything.

Why would you fit a Raptor 700 ECU yes it will offer a wider RPM range, I already did all the + & - of fitting one & have mentioned it a few times. The Raptor ECU + Raptor wiring loom as it has a different ECU connector to the XT ECU + an ignition module is needed for this mod, you add up the $ & see what the mod will cost in the end.

If you are going to use the Raptor 700 ECU then you need to buy an ignition advancer system as well, as the 700 ECU has the ignition timing retarded big time in the upper rev range, have a look at any standard Raptor dyno runs.

It would be cheaper & quicker to fit a Rapid Bike ECU or a Power Commander ignition module to the XT.

Dynojet said that none of their products would change the rev limiter on my XT. They also say the Raptor 700 PCV does not work on a XT660Z/X/R & we all know it works perfectly. They aslo say the Auto tune does not work on a XT660 & we know it does.

That includes the Dynatek ignition module, I have news for them. (now thats what they say, but DO any of their products work "unofficially"??) Kev, did you say the Dynatek was being used on a XT? Yes by a guy in Greece, there is also a guy running a Rapid bike ECU with the a rewritten ignition map & has moved the RPM limiter. For an extra 500 REVS? I can't find the thread....an extra 500 revs would be ideal. Do some home work & have a look at how the Dynotek or dynojet ignition modules connect on a Raptor 700.

Does anyone know if our XT's a 16 bit or 32 bit ECU? Not sure

PIASINI ENGINEERING in Italy have just started to do bikes, and they make ECU Flashing equipment. They are apparantly trying to have all the Big Four bikes covered in the New Year........but I have e-mailed them with the details of ALL the XT ecu's, along with a nice email anyway...as I suspect they will only do the Sportsbikes.....so fingers crossed my email will get them going.... Sounds interesting, I deal with flashing ECU's everyday of my life, I do around 5 a day, engines, gearboxes, ABS, A/C ETC.

And Steve Athens has no dashboard now.........so a race ecu sounds a pain.......


And going back to Big Bores...and Steve Athens new project..how would you bore out a XT cylinder to 105.5mm, and Nikasil plate it? An Iron bore can't be Nikasil'd. ?? For a 105.5mm bore, it would have no skirt left! So, unless a Alu bore is put in, I can't see how it would be done on a XT barrel....huh?? I have asked the engine builder to look into it, but I am more inclined to stay at a 102mm bore, as I think it would be sweeter. (plus Kev will start groaning if I change my mind yet again...) You resleeve the XT660 cylinder to 105.5mm & run the cast iron cylinder, bore the XT660 casings by 1.2mm, I did my casings as I wanted to go to 105.5mm on my last XT.

As an afterthought.......I went out on my bike twice over the weekend....it runs so well and nicely, it makes me wonder why I am doing this project AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Because you can, all the home work has already been done for you, so your conversion is a sure thing.

Kev...this may be a "long shot" but.....

You have a Speedo Healer, right?

Say you were to "correct" your speedo (which reads off the engine revs, right?) to read a MUCH MUCH lower speed than you are really doing, it MAY fool the ECU rev limiter......................and that should work in all the gears.....ok , your speedo will be out, but this is just an exercise.

You would have to set your Speed Healer as low as you can.....

It may work, may not, but surely worth a try?

If you have a rev counter, i think you do, then would that be worth a try?..it would certainly tell us a little more about how the rev limiter works/ runs from..???

Are we sure the rev limiter is in the ECU, and not the CDI as well??

[quote=richardsracingmad;139338]Kev...this may be a "long shot" but.....

You have a Speedo Healer, right? Yes I do V4.0

Say you were to "correct" your speedo (which reads off the engine revs, right?) No it reads off the gearbox out put shaft, has nothing to do with revs.to read a MUCH MUCH lower speed than you are really doing, it MAY fool the ECU rev limiter......................and that should work in all the gears.....ok , your speedo will be out, but this is just an exercise. A engine speed sender & a speedo hall effect sender show completely different wave patterns, can't see how it would work, something to think about though.

You would have to set your Speed Healer as low as you can.....

It may work, may not, but surely worth a try? Something to look at, I already have an easier way of advancing the ignition timimg over all & that is using an off set 4 degree woodruff key, easily made by Kev2.

If you have a rev counter, i think you do, then would that be worth a try?..it would certainly tell us a little more about how the rev limiter works/ runs from..???

Are we sure the rev limiter is in the ECU, and not the CDI as well The CDI is built in the ECU if you want to call it that. CDI is a very old term for Condencor Discharged Ignition, the XT660 from 2004 has a Transistorized coil ignition (Digital) & is made by Denso.

I belong to this forum if you want to learn how to hack a ECU.

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=99460

I belong to that forum as well...

I am conversing with PIASINI, in regards to getting the XT660 ecu flashed.
This will open up the O2 sensor, rev limiter, ignition advance etc. alterations, so that we can make our bikes run better. It will mean that we can adjust the FUEL /IGNITION when going over 7200rpm in particular, as well as ignition advance etc......

I am sending my ECU to them, Kev is helping as well, and this should be a great move forward, in modding XT's. It will not be a quick result tho.......but I think we will get a good result at the end.....

IF ANYONE HAS ANY LOGGING/DATA WITH REGARDS TO IGNITION FUEL etc.../RAPIDBIKE/DYNATEK/CUSTOM ECU etc... THAT WOULD HELP THE DEVELOPMENT, PLEASE CONTACT ME.

I have sent a XT660 Crankshaft to High Desert Dyno in the States, so they can see it, with the view to making a "drop in" stroker crank for XT660.

Pistons.....Originally I was going for a 103mm, been put off that one.
Then a 102mm, a good choice..and cheaper...but..I like the sound of Steve Athens's 105.5 bore project..so....
Steve Ruth is going to do me a 105.5mm, in a XT cylinder, (not a Raptor cylinder).

The Good News.......
 

My Cylinder Head, Crankshaft and Throttle Body have arrived in the States, at High Desert Dyno for Dan to do his magic....:020:


Unfortunately, the Cylinder Head has been damaged in transit,... but luckily I took out Insurance...but still a bit of a blow.
Dan says he can repair it tho'...:headbang:


PIASINI ENGINEERING. (Italy) ..more of the good news.....

I have got CHRISTIAN PIASINI (the ECU Guru) to join our forum. I have done alot of telephone calls/emails behind the scenes, searching for a solution for upgrading our (my!!) ECU'S, (a re-program/flash) , enabling things such as :
Upping the Rev-Limiter, Altering Ignition Timing, Fuelling, and possibly the O2 sensor as well....

What this would entail, once development is complete, is that you just send your Ecu to one of his UK (or Overseas) Agents, and they will "Flash" your ecu, and send it back to you.
This will not only be cheaper than fitting a Race Ecu, it will mean that your dashboard will still work as well, that you won't have to do a major re-wiring project, and no complicated and expensive Dyno re-program/set up.
So.. far less hassle,you would just have your ECU altered. That's all. Just Plug and Play.

Our Denso ECU on all years/models is a very awkward one to alter, that is why no-one has been able to change anything before.
Piasini Engineering are a very highly respected Company, in Race Car Ecu's, and they are branching into Motorcycles. They have already done some work on our Ecu, along with similar Denso Ecu's, but are still working on the Read/Write part of their program.

We are priviliged that they are taking such an interest in developing our XT's for us.........they obviously get most interest/business from the R1 type of bike, and race teams/drag bikes.

I really hope that this is met with alot more enthusiasm than Kev+Daz's 02 Sensor mod...(with only a pityful THREE customers interested, after TWO years of work and hundreds of people complaining of surging)...even though it is more of a "Specialised Tuning Mod".....

my cylinder head is ready!! yipeee..all repaired too...it was quite nastily damaged...

Steve has helped me choose a compression ratio for the engine, so a CP 11:1 105.5mm piston will be the heart of the engine.

Just waiting for that and the liner....then its time for Steve to build it.

Nice the project is going on!I have my xt to fit an upside down wp front fork and a fully adjustable wp back shock to have the best driving experience when i finish the motor.Why did you choose the 11:1 compression?especially with HDD camshaft which works best with 12,5:1 compression

We chose 11:1 compression because it is still a road bike, and we want as much reliability as we can. Also, we were not sure how long the starter motors would last at any higher compression.
I believe the HDD5050 cam works very well at 11:1 as well....so I am happy with our choice.

Sounds like you will have an awesome bike, Steve, when it is finished. :headbang:

Nice work.

What is happening with the stroker crank?

No idea...!! Hopefully Dan will have some news...

I have decided to start a MUCH SHORTER thread about this engine mod under Performance Modifications (cos I do like to waffle on -don't I?), to make it easier for others to read. However, I will continue this thread...and the waffle.......

Right, one of the important bits.. COSTS !

So far, these are the costs, (although Dan has done me a great "Development Deal",) but I am listing the normal prices...


I have started with a spare engine (optional).

1 x Pair +1mm Inlet Valves $70
1 x Pair +1mm Exhaust Valves $70
1 x Set of Springs $180
1 x Cuervo Racing Ported Flowed Head $850
1 x Used Raptor cam gear $50
1 x Rocker Arm Clearance Machining $50
1 x HDD 5050 Camshaft $300
1 x Gasket 105.5mm $50
1 x CP 105.5 11:1 Piston $260
1 x Liner (Supply only) for cylinder bore $110
1 x Valve guides $90
1 x Throttle Body boring $200
1 x Shipping both ways $100

TOTAL PARTS/MACHINING FROM HDD $2380 (Approx �1480)

I didn't have valve guides , but added them anyway.

$110.00 for fitting & machining the 105 cylinder, bargain price.

What have they quoted you to build the motor?

You need to keep your engine mods on one thread otherwise no one will know what's is going on down the line.

$110 is not for fitting...its just to buy a liner. I have edited above to "supply liner only"

I have started the other, much shorter thread Kev, let me know if I have missed anything..... http://www.xt660.com/showthread.php?t=15459

That's not a bad price considering everything thats getting done. Be sure to keep an eye on the little bits and bobs that soon mount up.

Lookin foreward to the results.

yep...you will have a total cost at the end........

I understand now, price is for the mentioned parts not fitted, $2380 (Approx �1480)

So additional costs still to come, machining the cylinder for the 105 sleeve, machining the XT cases to fit the 105 cylinder, balancing the crank to suit the extra piston weight, assemble of the motor, dyno time to tune. I look forward to seeing the end results.

correct Kev...Steve has some machining to do......I will do a big total at the end for Parts, Labour and extras.

Update on progress
 

I spoke to Dan at High Desert Dyno last night, to sort out the payment and delivery of the new parts to Steve Ruth. (Dan sounds a very laid back dude!).

Dan is guessing it will make 70hp, and 54ft/lbs
I am guessing 68hp, but 57ft/lbs (so we are both very similar, which is reassuring!)

So things are moving on ..and I must say it is all very exciting!

(It has all taken longer than I initially expected, but it is a "Winter project", so it really doesn't matter.)

Hopefully Steve will receive the parts by the end of the month, and the cylinder and liner have to be sent off for machining as one of the first jobs.

The cylinder will have to be bored out to accept the new larger liner, the liner fitted, and then bored out again for the new larger piston. Then the crankcases have to be bored out to accept the new liner.

Steve is going to weigh the new piston, to see if it needs balancing with the crankshaft/ conrod.

So, as Kev mentioned, still alot of work to be done before re-assembly commences.

I have slight damage to my generator, (my spare engine had been down the road), so I will try to find another.


I was going to get some slighly more offroad-orientated tyres, TKC80'S,....but I think I will keep my Tourances for now, certainly until I have got the feel of the new engine, plus it will give a more accurate comparison on the dyno, against my previous dyno's.

Right an update...

Dan was just about to send all the parts to Steve Ruth, and found the cylinder liner was damaged, so he had to get another one.

He has now sent the parts, and we should have them before Christmas.

The project has taken much longer than I initially thought. It didn't help with me changing my mind so many times, and once I had settled on the spec., waiting for all the Cylinder Head work, along with delays in postage, and damage to the Cylinder Head when it arrived with Dan, etc.

I am reluctant to get my bike out on the road after all the salt gritting, and I won't be having my bike out until it is looking more like Spring.

So I have turned my attention towards getting the bike "more offroadish".

I also still have to do a power run/tune on the dyno to get the final result of my DNA Stage 3 Airbox thread completed.......so my current engine is staying in the bike for the moment.

update...I spoke to Steve Ruth (engine builder) today, the parts will be delivered to him tomorrow, for a January build. Estimated completion end of January (which is my request as I have had an expensive Christmas!)

Total costs so far.

Spare Engine �300
Replace engine casing �30
HDD RETAIL PRICE for my parts �1480 including shipping
Import tax �72

TOTAL (at retail price for the parts) �1882 (gulp!!)

Still have to pay for Steves rebuild, he has totally stripped the engine, and all the machining, gaskets etc...(he had to do that to send off the Crankshaft)

The ECU is going off to Piasini in Italy for the re-flash next week, hopefully removing the rev limiter, and making the bike run above 7200rpm.

Now I am looking at a Water Temp Gauge, possibly a larger rad off another bike, possibly an oil cooler, I will have to see how much hotter it runs. It will run even hotter when bedding in the rings. And with my HUMM trip in Spain, I will have to make sure the bike is operating well within the parameters of ideal temperature.

Steve Ruth has finished my engine (bang-on when he said he would)...and he said also it all went together really well (big thanks to Steve and Dan!)

I also have an uprated clutch and fuel injection system, which is a bit of a surprise too! Yipeeeee!
:bcake:

What did they do to the clutch? The 700 Raptors run an extra clutch plate compared to the XT660.

What did they uprate on the fuel injection side?

Don't know on the mods..let you know. Uprated springs..

Just curious why you would go to the expense of using someone in the US, I would think that there should be someone in the UK to do the same quality of work.
Sounds fantastic and looking forward to seeing the final result.

Gstry..Some parts were "US only" or put that "High Desert Dyno only" for me.

So, that's how it is !

Daniel who did Richards work is one of the best Raptor motor builders in the USA, he really knows these motor backwards, so all the work done will work 100%.

Steve said it was all "very nice".

Was the deck height adjusted on the cylinder?

ADD �190 for machining Crankcases, removing existing liner, replacing with iron liner, bored to suit piston travel expenses.
ADD �400 for labour to total strip/ rebuild, includes: Yamaha gaskets, Uprated clutch springs, modified clutch?, modified injection?, postage to USA, and other bits required.

TOTAL �2080. (at retail price)

Then plus oil, filter, coolant, �50?, dyno �150.

plus Piasini ECU �-?
plus uprated cooling �-?

plus optional spare engine, throttle body etc. (my one was a steal, a 5,000mile engine for �300), but they are normally �700-�900 from a scrap dealer.

don't know yet..I'll get the full run-down when I pick it up.

What I will say is Kev, we are not trying for the highest compression...we won't win that award! ...enough to do the job, but to also keep the lid on! And as I am not racing it, it sounds perfect to me. Easier on the starter motor too. 11:1 ballpark..certainly not much, or any, over that.

Expensive build.

Just trying to work out exactly what has been done to your motor.

yip...expensive Kev, but I am happy with that, in the knowledge that I chose a great spec, (that will work together very well,) and I chose the best guys to do it!

I'm happy!!:smilies0349:

If you are interested, you will find several pages about Steve Ruth on the HM Racing website...this link should take you http://www.hmracing.co.uk/Default.as...&intLevel5=592

..but go back to "2001 Enter the Supermono" intro...

yh i will join that club taking for granted my mate RG500 sold for �300 when we left school, and mk1+2 escorts and capri's. Could be loaded now if i never sold any of em lol

Martin from Slipstream :icon_cool: