XT660Z Tenere or 800 GS
 

Trying to (finally) decide between a new 800 GS or 660 Tenere. I know and understand that I'm not comparing apples with apples, but that is exactly my problem. BM feels more road biased and Tenere more dirt biased.

This is NOT a "VS" thread.
And a KTM or KLR is not an option as KTM is way TOO expensive in South Africa and KLR not to my liking.
GSA or Super Tenere also not as I don't want or like a bike of it's size, bulk, weight and intended purpose.

I will use the bike to
* commute in the summer / spring (20k's round trip five days a week)
* do weekend trips that will include some gravel
* do solo rides that will include some more adventurous riding
* aim to do one longer trip per year that will include gravel and unknown roads (Planning a Cape Town - via Namibia - Okavango Delta - Vic Falls - Zim - Mozam - Cape Town trip for next year)

I have demo'ed both a couple of times and have been on longer demo rides as well, but I'm still battling to decide.

My thoughts and considerations:
General
BM feels more road biased and Tenere more dirt biased. Planning to do both and dirt won't be gravel only. No single track or serious trails, but a smooth gravel road doesn't quite mean "off the beaten track" to me.
Both feel comfortable and there isn't much in the perceived weight.

Pro's & Cons
800 GS
- 16lt on the small side
- fork has a lot of dive. Will have to spend money to get it to my liking
- List price is R25000 more (Roughly $3500), but comes with ABS and heated grips
- Average service price is more and 1000km service is for my pocket
- Dealing with BM has a more corporate feel to it
- Throttle response is snatchy at lower speeds and RPM
- OE accessories are more $$$ than Yamaha's
- Every ride so far has left me a bit underwhelmed
- Not a "bikers" display (see +)
- Needs a bigger screen

+ Stronger engine
+ Less vibe
+ Comes with 3 year road side assistance on top of std 2 year warranty
+ Comes with ABS and heated grips
+ Easier to get my feet on the ground
+ Trip Computer gives useful info

660 Tenere
+ 23lt Tank big enough to cover longer stretches especially in Africa
+ Suspension handles dirt better, less dive inspires confidence
+ Can buy FULLY kitted Tenere for same price as stock GS
+ Services are cheaper and 1000km service is included in purchase price
+ Dealing with Yamaha feels like dealing with bikers
+ Was a lot easier to ride the Tenere smooth from the off
+ OE accessories are more affordable
+ Bike has surprised me on every ride
+ Like the cockpit better
+ Stock screen is okay, and still better than BMW touring screen

- During demo rides the single felt good enough for me, but not as strong or smooth as GS
- Vibrations is noticeable when climbing from Tenere straight onto GS
- Std 2 year warranty
- No ABS option or heated grips
- Seat is a bit high, but okay
- No trip computer to give range and fuel consumption

So when I look at the list above and read through my own thoughts, I wonder why not just buy the Tenere. It's all there!

BUT:
Unknowns:
* Just how much will the Tenere battle to pull with it loaded
* How will the single handle being two up and loaded (Yes, I know the GS will be better, but will the Tenere be bearable)
* ABS...will I look back and regret buying the bike without it
* How tiring will the single's vibrations be

Will the
* Afford ability
* Bigger Fuel Tank
* Feel

make up for
* less power
* no ABS (I've had one or two scares. One during a demo last week on a ABS-less Tenere...not nice)

Would be great to hear from rider's who have OWNED or RIDDEN both

Didnt ride BM, butt reliability and fuel tank size is more for what you need. And wibes... they are not so horrible, you will get used to it. It has some lack of power, but on the big trip you will ride more carefully, so you dont need it really more. (but would be cool to have it)
BM has factory fault on rear suspension, some bending issue, esspecially with two on bike and luggage on longer unpaved trip.
I would go for Tenere in this case.

Haven't ridden the F800GS, but I have rode the F650GS (same engine, different tuning) as the ex Girlfriend has one.

I will be honest and say that, assuming the F800GS rides like the F650GS does then, if I had ridden the F650GS before I bought my Tenere I would have bought the F800GS instead.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Tenere and think it's a great bike, but the engine in the BMW is just so much nicer than the yams. That said I would have soon got annoyed at the prices BMW charge for, well pretty much everything. In addition the Tenere is a lot easier to do your own work on.

One final thing, the BMW is very good on fuel consumption, so unless you are planning on travelling in some seriously out of the way places I wouldn't be put off by the smaller tank.

Tim Cullis has both. I am sure he can offer an informed opinion.

Send him a PM in case he has not spotted this thread.

... and I am offended as I ride a BM as well .... :-)

I had same dilema before purchasing my ten.

You won't be wrong with either, if you like fast speed at highways and you can afford it, get the BMW, If you are more off-road biased and you don't usuaky ride at 160+km/h get the ten, but both are great bikes.

have fun,

j

The Ten struggles 2 up and fully loaded, other then that I think the Ten is the bike for you. Get a fit and handsome passenger and try to keep the luggage light, problem solved. ;)

@Keithblade

Mebbe summat yer best pal w'u'n't tell thee.

Yes was very noticable on the 1600 mile trip round Scotland, nods and waves off nearly everyone on two wheels, cept most the BMW bunch.

:wave:

i dont find this, i ride an F800 and have no problem getting nods and waves.

am i missing somthing????

I see your point, but even on my XT i get nods off BMW riders.. I agree they are not as social (in fact a strange snobby bunch) mostly... but theres no doubt the F800GS is by far the best bike out of the that and the Tenere

I know they are similar bikes but i have owed both and the BMW is much better in all ways (bring on the insults)

only a bike, its true, and ive had a few.... its just a damn good bike. as you say, its all opinion, and i feel on the whole, BMW owners tend to be a bit stuck up... like KTM riders :YellowCrazy_J8GDC6:

Focus!
 

Thanks for all the replies. Not too worried about who's most likely to wave, so let's all focus! :icon_mrgreen:

its all about the waving... :icon_mrgreen:

If you want to be treated like a rich piece of dirt and want to throw money away - go for the BM. Then you can wave at all the 'Tossers' as they seem to like each other lots..

My Ten is in the garage and is staying, the BMW is being picked up on Sunday.

...nuff said, you'll make the right decision!

a new 800gs costs less than a new half faired fazer...why would the bmw make you look like a rich piece of dirt?

As for the BMW riders not waving, i find its 6 of one half dozon of the other. But then you havent meet the Quay Vipers who alot of ride BMWs, they will wave and nod at everyone even a scooter sometimes!!!!

Anyway BMWgs 800 or Tenere?

Having not ridden the 800 im unsure of what its like but on price and other peoples reviews i would be very warey, abs problems, electrics, design faults etc ok every bikes not perfect now for some reason but i think they released this too early and didnt do enough testing.

Tenere, yes 2 up and loaded, not thats its going to struggle as it still has around 50bhp its just your not going to set any speed records, but when your two up what do you want, some speed and something thats going to be comfortable. As for the rest of the stuff if the tenere is any thing like the R (what ive got) it will handle off roading, gravel, 20km commute any day:thumbsup[1]:

When you wave Keith just out of interest do you use all your fingers or just 2 because that may have something to do with it :rofl[1]::rofl[1]:

I am on the UKGS site aslo, and lead ride out for them on my Tenere. Down here in the south west everyone waves, sometimes with a clenched fist :thumbsup[1]:

Thanks again for all the comments. Again, I'm not worried about who waves and who not, who's a poser and who's a tosser. In South Africa that will most likely be the BM crowd. :paranoid:

But I'm not gonna cry myself to sleep cause someone didn't wave...It's about th BIKE, not the rider here.

For what its worth, on my travels (Transalp / Tenere / GS / 660R / Dakar) I have found MOST Dual / Adventure bike riders not their head. But not super bikers or cruisers. Obviously they only greet their kind. But; that couldn't bother me less.

I mountain bike quite a bit and we as a kind are known for being wavy, friendly and helpful - not so with roadies. Such is life. I'll still wave, nod or greet...doesn't take any effort from my side.

So...Tenere or GS?

GS for two up touring .
Tenere for everything else.

Well the thread seems to have gone off-topic rather. Since moving to London I get far fewer waves, I think it's only natural that owners of one particular bike brand will wave more often to similar bike owners than everyone.

Anyway, to focus on the original questions.

The 16-litre tank on the F800GS is actually about 17.5 litres and fuel economy is far better than on the Tenere. 80mpg is achievable. I can't think of many occasions, even in Africa, when you would need to carry additional fuel.

You don't have to buy ABS with the F800. That narrows the gap.

The engine on the F800GS is amazing. It also has a six-speed gearbox but unfortunately BMW just took the close ratio box from the F800S/ST, so first gear is higher than I would prefer, top is lower.

The Tenere has a five speed box. Top gear on the Tenere is very high and the engine isn't particularly flexible, so it makes sense to drop a cog on the front sprocket.

Due to the high top gear the Tenere is fine for motorway cruising at 80mph, but it wouldn't handle the 960-mile in 23 hour journey I did on the BMW. The Tenere is better in city traffic.

There have been a load of reliability problems with the F650/800GS and some (e.g. chains) are still outstanding.

I get more vibes through the handlebars with the BMW than the Tenere.

The BMW has modern electrics (headlight switches off automatically when engine stops so battery isn't discharged) but the Tenere's basic engineering is better for wilderness trips.

What would be lovely is a cross between the two bikes--the basic setup of the rally-styled Tenere but with the BMW engine and gearbox (with wide ratios).

Which do I prefer? I keep my Tenere in southern Spain with motoadventours.com so I can easily access Moroccan trails. The BMW sits outside my house in London.

Tim

Thanks. How do you find the GS in the dirt compared to the Ten?

So far its definitely maybe one of them!

Having owned a BMW from new, they are costly and need things like warranty extending and regular servicing to have any kind of residual. Perhaps true of any mark, but try selling a BMW without all of the ad ons..

Once you have given BMW your hard earned you'll see what I mean about how they treat you, it's very different and changes again when the 24 month warranty runs out.

A 'Tosser' is someone from the GS forum, not a dirty word at all, but a group of GS riders..

I rode the 800GS and it's an OK road bike. Prefer the Ten' by far which is why I have one.

Warning, blatant thread hi-jack!
 

Buy this one:

http://www.xt660.com/showthread.php?t=14714

You could even put the pillion pegs back on if you want!

J x

ps. fwiw. by all accounts, I think an 800GS is probably one of the best "if you could only have one bike" bikes out there... however, if dirt/travel/long term ownership is your bias, I'd say there are better prospects, and the Tenere is far more focused machine in the respect... the GS is an SUV, not an overlander...

Shot!
 

Thanks guys. Curtain gets drawn...

:toothy1:

Brilliantly put JMo..

A couple of points, 1, I've ridden lots of Beemers on and off road. The 1150/1200 BM is a fantastic long distance machine, we all know that. In my opinion, the smaller BM's dont do anything particularly well and they are expensive in every department. I now own a 2010 XT660Z and for my level of ability off road, that means gravel, rutted tracks, Salisbury Plain terrain, this is the bike for me. Love it!
2. BM riders. Probably the most unfriendly snot nosed bunch of txxxs you could wish to meet.
The famous GS web site says it all, a right bunch of Tossers. The exception to this generality being the team at Bristol Motorrad. Apart from the owner, very strange IMHO, a good bunch. They remain mates even though I sold my last BM, GS650 Dakar, to buy the Tenere.
Also, Uncle Ricky is a bit of a diamond, if you get the chance, join one of his rides, great fun! Hey Ricky hows tricks?

But
 

You can buy two XT660Rs for the cost of one F800GS!

T
I am well thank you. I was going too do
a ride out last August, but work got in the way
I will do one when early next year

Hi Rick. on the subject of being friendly or otherwise, the ride you led down to Porlock when it was very wet n windy was great, all the beemer boys were very good fun and of course, you were on your Ten. In fact that was the ride that made me wonder why I was lugging an 1150GS around when the ' little ' Yamaha was obviously so much fun!
On the other hand, when I went on another well known regular ride out with the GSers. the atmosphere was entirely different.
Finally, yes I get blanked by lots but not all BM jocks, if you really want to feel invisible , try getting a nod from a HD lugger.

Sod all this snow and ice, roll on the spring.

Happy Christmas and a peaceful New Year to you all, whatever you ride.

Crow, welcome, I've not seen you around.
Impressed with your comparisons of the two bikes, you did put some thought into it.
I also was in the same position, rode both and had the 800 for a full weekend (including the GS1200) and the Tenere I rode a number of times. Although totally different bikes I did own the 1995 Tenere at the time so was familar with the power, reliability etc.
In the end I chose the Tenere and its been 18 months and have to say I love this bike, like the 1995 model, it will take you to the moon and back.
Regarding power and speed. If you want 200km an hour, its the wrong bike. The Tenere will do 140km per hour for hours on end and will get there very quickly, it will do 150 and 160 and my top speed is 171km (gps).
Regarding the vibration, it is suprisingly smooth, not as smooth as the BM but really not an issue and thevibes do die with age, with 15,000' my bike is pretty smooth.
You have already made all the points so won't waste your time repeating your own conclusions but this bike does give you the extra freedom and there is a ton of things you can do to it and there's a ton of enthusiasm which surronds this bike.
I will say the spares and accessories cost and availability plays a big part and in South Africa nobody beats Yamaha. In Durban, Perry Yamaha have been fantastic, as I believe Droomers in Cape Town are.
My two sons also have the Tenere and they love it.
Last year we did the West coast, Cape Town, Agrabies, Verneuk Pan, Colesburg, Rhodes, Durban and I never got tired of this bike.
Few weeks ago I had 40kgs on the back and went up Sani Pass and across Lesotho and down to Rhodes and back to Durban no problem except for a dented front rim (second one)! ...and the beamers have the same problem.
There have been issues with this bike which have been sorted and there still are some that have'nt been. These are all on the forums and you nodoubt have already read them.
Then there is the XT660.com family, rarely will you find such a bunch, yes they hijack threads :violence: and they are a bunch of wavers :hismiley:, but they generally can't be beat.

Good luck

have not ridden the GS but my Tenere did 100 miles plus on saturday two up, with bursts up to 80(on the speedo) but generally was happy at 70.i find this a real good do it all bike!

hi guys it seems who acknowledges and who does not is always a popular topic.i get ignored on my scooter,sometimes on my Harley with apes and sometimes on my tenere...hey ho,lets all keep up the friendly nods when safe....

Sometimes I ride my Yamaha Tenere, sometimes my BMW GS. I don't vary the degree of waving according to the bike I'm riding. I wave (or nod) to guys and gals on mopeds, scooters, 125s and even Teneres. :)

The term 'tosser' on the UKGSer site (for which I am a moderator) is an affectionate term first coined by 'Bakerman', a really nice guy who runs Burbridge Bakery in Andover.

Bakerman runs many events on Salisbury Plain and also raises tons of dosh for charity with his annual Hograost (sic) camping weekends organised with his wife 'Mrs Soft Baps'.

I must say I have meet some great chap's on that site.

I joined back in 2003 when I ran BMW's

sadly when I read some post's on that site the word Tosser is about right for most on there now.

I would say that the Tenere is a better bike off road than the BM.

Both will do 2 up touring with luggage, the BM is faster on tarmac, but I should think that the Tenere could be ridden off road quicker than the BM if speed was your thing.

I like how the Tenere get's it's power down and that's what suit's me. great bike for the money . I will let you know how it fairs 2 up off road on our return from Morocco

safe fun riding.

Dazzer

Crow, buy the Ten, stop waving, nodding, and worry about what other bikers do...whatever you want to do, JUST ride the bike and enjoy it for what it is...
Did you copy all of this into the local BM riders forums as well?...
GB

So, in the end...
 

I bought the GS. Two things sold it

1. Service I got from BM
Went to Droomers more times than I can remember and phoned a couple of times on top of that, but they just didn't seem so keen to sell a bike. BMW (Hamman Motarrad) was professional and friendly, returned my calls, organised two demo rides and was willing to listen to and discuss all my questions and concerns.

2. ABS
While test-riding I had three scary moments of which two was on the ABS-less Tenere.

I must admit...there are days I regret it. The 800 has been great. Hasn't missed a beat since I bought it, but I liked the feel and look of Tenere so much more.

Different Opinions
 

Didn't get many "local" replies, but here some views from ADV Rider

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=611497

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=611495

Hello; just bought a Tenere and new here.

I've ridden the 800GS on- and off- road and a couple of years ago rode the Stella Alpina on a 650 Transalp in company with the previous owner of my Ten.The Ten is a much better bike in almost ever respect. I have not yet ridden it off road but it impressed me in its previous owner's hands.

I'd take the Ten every time (hang on, I just did...) Better wind protection, better seat (IMO), more robust build (check stories of GS shock mount probs), marginally better suspension. Probably greater tank range; 70mpg is achievable with the Ten, not far off the admittedly impressive 80mpg with the GS. Capable of a 1000 mile day (I've done them). And easier on the wallet.

The GS has a super motor but in S/ST guise they are suspect on longevity, particularly piston/bore life. And ABS is horrible on the dirt.