I'm a bit confused with the Stage1/2 filter stuff.
 

Right lads,

help me out a bit here.

I've just booked a 3 day trackday event at Park Algar in Portugal.

Plan at the moment is to use the XT660x over there. However i do have a choice of a GSXR 600 i've recently re-built/restored.

Problem is, i REALLY need more power to get the best of the track. Ideally more top end. I could in theory run a lower tooth sprocket on the rear if i can squeeze a bit more out of the bike.

So currently i'm running a stock machine, snorkel removed and a set of cans fitted.

So... this DNA stage 1, stage 2 etc confuses me a little.

I've seen Kevs threads about "if you run this you get 3bhp more, this you get 2bhp more"

But i'm still confused.

So considering my setup, what's the way forward ?

Sorry it's a daft Qn, i have honestly read stuff and am generally clued up on bikes (have done 2 recent rebuilds) but i think i'm missing something.

SO i see, +DNA stage 2 filter only, standard main filter = 3.1HP. (Best gain in HP & torque for your money.)

Now see where i get confused is
http://www.dnafilters.com/filterdeta...p?filterid=258

Is that all i need to purchase ?

weeksy,

DNA or K&N stage 1 air filter - OE replacement
DNA stage 2 air filter box

PLus, if you are planning on keeping the bike then drill holes in the air filter box the ohter side to where the dna stage 2 filter is, and in my own personal opinion, fit a PC3 and get it dyno'd.

However, fitting the stage 1 and stage 2 alone will allow the bike to breath and you'll be surprised at the difference it will make

Cheers

WB

LEts remove the PC3 from the discussion right away, cost is too prohibitive at the moment i'm afraid.

So, ideally a stage 1 and 2 ? is that all for stage 2 ? i recall seeing a 'cover' is that just aesthetics ?

weeksy,

the stainless cover is something i make. It serves one of 2 purposes, looks great :) but alos helps the rubber outer on the filter fit better and also covers up the words on the side of the filter box that state 'for off road use only '

Cheers

WB

SO without sounding too harsh....

i don't 'need' one as such ? it's just an added bonus so to speak ?

not needed at all matey :)

From what ive read stg 1 filter replaces your standard filter and will give minimumal if no top end performance but more mid range and better off the throttle response, where all stg 2 with replaces the right hand side of the air filter box with a filter allows more air in which gives more bhp through out the rev range, more torque, better throttle repsonse, etc.

Also if your going to the track think about removing extras like pillion pegs etc that will weigh the bike down. Also once on the track you can drop the tyre pressures a bit to allow for more grip on the track.

Looks like the Stage 2 is the way forward at the moment then, maybe the stage 1 before i go as well.

i've done 100+ trackdays and raced a bit too so am OK with Track stuff in general mate :)

Right i've found what i was thnking about before

http://www.e-dnafilters.com/Product.asp?ID=1128

So, what's this ? Is the first one the cover and this the filter so i need BOTH of them ?

Or is the first one a filter and cover combined ?

Edit, is that the Stage 1 filter ?

Ah sod it... i've ordered one of the first links, the Stage 2 filter cover LOL.

Reassure me i've done the right thing lads ;)

P-Y6E04-01 is the stage one filter

P-Y6E04-S2 is the stage two filter
hope this helps

You have got to have 1 of Worry Brovs Stainless covers its the law they are SSSSEXY!!!

In that case i've ordered a Stage 2 which is what i think i wanted ;)

Not till i get the bike faster.... Speed first... sexy later :)

Don't forget, it has me riding it... any sexier and it will be trying to shag itself.

Cool get video and pics:ldiw[1]:

weeksy,

you need both to get the most out of the bike and to let it breath. Its no use fitting the stage 2 if you haven't fitted the stage 1 as the std oem filter will just bog the bike down.

Both, both ,both are needed or dont bother with the stage 2, seriously.

I have spent a lot of time and effort on mine to know the difference, in my opinion :)

WB

Will do mate yeah :) Just not this month probably.

Have spent too much money making a pile of scrap into a bike in the past 4-5 weeks.

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...9/DSC01645.jpg

Go on then, last Qn, more just curiosity than anything really.

Are the BHP improvement cumulative ?

So i get 2.2 for the cans, 3.0 for the Stage 2 filter and 1ish for the Stage 1 ?

Doesn't really matter either way... just wondering really.

Any answers to the above lads ?

I've just won a Stage 1 on Ebay to go along with the Stage 2 that's winging it's way over. Add them to my cans and i should be happy. Will do the Co level once fitted etc.

My advice to you is this:

1) DNA stage 1 & stage 2 is the way to go for top HP gain.
2) your snorkel is off already so you're ok
3) Worry Brother's cover is optional but it will stop a nosey copper say: "aye aye what have we got here?, not suitable for road use?"
4) You've got the cans covered

Now this is the crucial choice that you wil have to take: you are adding more air intake and quicker exhaust gas dispersion via the after market cans which do not have catalizers or resrictions, sp what do you think you are going to need next? more fuel intake is the answer. Adjusting CO2 will only work on part throttle and at the lower regime, what you need is a fuelling device.

And your choices are Kev Mod or Power Commander, the Kev Mod will keep you honest but it is a fix that works uniformely over the whole rev range whereas the power commander is the ultimate because a qualified Dynojet tester can fine tune every area to adjust the fuelling as required, adequately to your bike's response and for that there is no substitute but the PCIII and mapping is the most expensive solution. So it all depends on how much you are willing to spend.

To answer your question in a nutshell your best bet is both filters and the Kev Mod.

Willing to spend and 'allowed by the bank manager' are two very different figures :)

Power Commander is not an option for me at the moment.

So i guess it's either buying or making the Kev Mod. Well, one of the lads who's a whizzkid on this stuff may be asked about it.

Thanks for the advice :)

Damnit!! It was you who won it!!

I thought I had that ****** and in the last 3 seconds there were a few more bids.

3 bloody seconds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Nice job though... guess ill have to keep looking...:wub:

http://www.motorcycle-exhausts.co.uk...oducts_id=7562

Just found that... Nice little find I think, free delivery too.

stage 2 �43.56

I only paid �3 less than you can buy it for mate. You can get the Stage 1 on Ebay for �29.97

By the time i won that and paid postage it was �26.01

I've just paid a LOT more than that from e-DNA shop

:(

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

another one there.

Do yourself a favour get a DNA stage1 filter, the DNA stage 1 filter flows more air then a K&N stage 1 filter.

The results are very impressive and enlightening.
All the air flow tests took place the same day on DNA’s Rotronics Computerized FlowBench, the test pressure was 1,5” inches of water and the results corrected to 25� celcius.
1.Presentation of the air filters:

a) Stock Yamaha air filter, single layer paper non-reusable air filter
b) K&N YA-6604 air filter, 4 layer cotton oil impregnated reusable air filter
c) DNA P-Y6E04-01 air filter, 4 layer cotton oil impregnated reusable air filter

2.Air Filter Design (see attached files)

a) The K&N YA-6604 air filter:
Media material 4 layers of K&N cotton
Number of pleats 11
Pleat Height 21 mm
Active Pleat length 115mm*
Pleat Pitch 6,36mm*
Oil volume 7ml
Total active filtering surface 53.130�mm*
� * as measured from the K&N sample filter we purchased.

b) The DNA P-Y6E04-01 air filter:
Media material 4 layers of DNA cotton
Number of pleats 9
Pleat Height 31 mm
Active Pleat length 124mm
Pleat Pitch 10mm
Oil volume 16,3ml
Total active filtering surface 69.192�mm

As we can see the DNA filter has larger pleat height 31mm(K&N 21mm), the pleat pitch is 10mm(K&N 6.36mm), the amount of oil DNA uses is more than double, and the most important +30.23% more active filtering surface..! for the same application.

At this point I must explain that the pitch of the DNA material is calculated taking under consideration many different variables; we use a specially developed algorithm and the final design varies from application to application. Even 0.1 of a mm can make a very big difference in airflow, speed of the air stream at the surface of the filter, turbulence and many more details that we can’t mention for obvious reasons.

So already from the start we have2 very different air filters!

Let’s continue with the tests.

3. Absolute AIR FLOW tests: the filters are tested out of the air box on a custom made plenum; nothing causes turbulence or restrictions to the air flow
(see attachments).
The result is solely what the filter can give.

a) Stock Yamaha Paper Air filter
70.42 CFM @ 1.5” of H�O

b) K&N YA-6604
92.18 CFM @ 1.5” of H�O
+30.9% over stock

c) DNA P-Y6E04-01
122.4 CFM @ 1.5” of H�O
+73.81% over stock
+32.78% over K&N…?

4. Air Box AIR FLOW tests: the filters are tested inside the stock Yamaha air box,
To eliminate the losses (restriction) that the stock throttle body could cause we used a 48.6mm throttle body without the butterfly; the absolute largest that could be connected to the XT 660 Rubber trumpet.
Air box restrictions, shape, resonance, position of the air filter, if the design of the air filter suits the design of the air box and many more variables play an important role now.
Also I have added the Volumetric Efficiency (VE), of the XT 660 Engine, that occurs for every configuration, if the tuner takes 100% advantage of the extra flow.

a)Test 1:
Air box & std filter & snorkel
46.53 CFM (1318 lit/min) VE=0.539

b)Test 2:
Air box & K&N filter & snorkel
52.51 CFM (1486 lit/min) VE=0.608

c)Test 3:
Air box & DNA filter & snorkel
57.19 CFM (1619 lit/min) VE=0.663

d)Test 4:
Air box & DNA filter & Without snorkel
59.52 CFM (1685 lit/min) VE=0.690

e)Test 5:
Air box & DNA filter & DNA Stage 2 filter & snorkel
79.19 CFM (2242 lit/min) VE=0.918

f)Test 6:
Air box & DNA filter & DNA Stage 2 filter Without snorkel
79.89 CFM (2262 lit/min) VE=0.926

g)Test 7:
Air box all open Without filters, side cover, snorkel
(this test is for reference only the bike can’t be used on the road in this state)
88.6 CFM (2509 lit/min) VE=1.027

Finishing our detailed tests clearly the conclusion is That the DNA stage 1 filter is NOT the same filter as the K&N as the overall difference is Massive.

Now he tells me LOL.

Read the mod section all the answers are there. Not all is lost a K&N stage 1 filter is still better then standard one.

The Mod section has a few linkys that no worky Kev.

For example the DNA 1 /2 fitting kit link.... a couple of the threads for fuelling stuff...

One of the powers that be reallly needs to have a little peek through them :)

I was particularly upset that the Fitting instructions one isn't there and working.. although i'm not expecting it to be brain surgery :)

Just checked the links you are referring to & those links are directed to the DNA & K&N web sites, they seem to have changed their web links. Web links are out of my control as they are posted by the different companies & they can change them without any notice at anytime.

Unfortunately I can not go though every link every day to see if they are working, there are thousands here on the forum. If a link is not working it would be nice if we are told, like you have so I can correct it. I will sort those links out for you tomorrow.

:occasion5:

Thanks chap :)

Hah, yeah!

I thought I was a shoeing to get it for �16 then you got it in the last couple of seconds.

But like kev says, the DNA ones give better flow.

So Kev, on these 09 XT's, should they automatically adjust fuelling to suit or will they only do it to a certain extent and then the fuel mod comes in to play?

The O2 sensor is an emission device not a tuning device, the O2 senor will lean out or increase the A/F ratio while on the cruise to around 14.7:1, this is not ideal for performance or fuel consumption.

The best HP on a XT is when the A/F ratio is around 13:1 & so a fuelling device is needed to richen up the mixture to achieve these results.

The fitting instructions will come with the filter.

DNA filter links are now fixed.

http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/YouDaManJesus.jpg

well the K&N Stage 1 arrived so that's ready for fitting once the DNA stage 2 arrives :)

Well i fitted both... adjusted it up on the Co and can't say i've noticed a thing LOL. Runs sweetly... but doesn't honestly feel any quicker.
Will get my mate on the case of knocking up a KEv Mod and see what happens.

Hello

And pardon me, this has no doubt been answered somewhere

It's recommended to get Stage 1 and 2 DNA air filter kit I read

How would this compare with K & N filter, snorkel removed and those four 28mm holes drilled ??

Many thanks