New Suspension or New Tires for Wet Condition
 

I find the bike a bit hesitating (and me too) on wet conditions, and in dry condition at tight turns I am leaning with less confidence than my old R1200GS. I first thought because the GS has an extra suspension right behind the fork, which makes the bike more stable in cornering. Then I remember (and re-read) some of you mentioning about the stock tires (Metzler Tourance) are not fantastic on wet conditions. May be a bit of both. I need to change my tires in another couple thousand km anyway, and I am likely going to change to Mitas E07 as I use the bike more road than off-roads. I am going to see how the tires contribute to the cornering stability. Then I will check out the WP suspension which should come out in May or summer 2009, as I was told by a rep at the Cologne show. I know Ohlins already has a set and Wilbers too, but I like to see what WP comes up with too. Any observations, tips on the tire/suspension relationship with wet conditions?

I've done over 3,500 miles on my Tourances, in all weathers, and considering they are a dual purpose tyre, I think they do pretty well. I suppose if you want something more road biased, you will get better wet weather grip, but it will be at the expense of any off road ability. Horses for courses? :smilies0943:

To be exact, I want everything of the Tourance plus better grip on wet conditions and tight cornering, I like the balance between road and off-road on the Tourance, so I don't want to sacrifice any off-road ability of the Tourance.

Is your bike actually letting go on the corners, or is it more of a "confidence" issue? I've had a couple of little slides in the wet, but nothing that required a change of underwear.

I too are running the tourances, and we've had some pretty wet weather up here in the lakes lately (remember the abandoned fell race a few weeks ago?).

I have no problem with the tourances in the wet, or mud or leaves (although I do back off a bit through these). The chicken strips are the same so I guess my riding hasn't changed and there have been no 'mishaps', I've covered 10,000 miles and I'm on my second set of rubber.

One thing I did change on the bike was the suspension setting. the stock setting is about 1 click up from 'softest', I took it about 1/3 of the way up on both the front and rear. The Ten does turn in alot slower than almost every other bike I've had a higher speed, and if the revs aren't right it can dip a bit at slow speed (that's a single thing though, the TTR does the same). Compared to my previous bike (Varadero) the higher speed cornering requires a bit more thought and anticipation than the Vara ever did. Stiffening the suspension gives it a little more feel in the corner and it doesn't dive quite as bad. If you want to setup for the road try taking the suspension up about 1/2 way, see it that improves it ? or maybe all the way - you can always take it back if you don't like it and it's not costing you anything. if you fancy a bit off-road then you can soften it again - although I find the 1/3 setting just about the best all round. Then again if I'm going 'proper' off road I take the TTR.

The tourances can grip in the wet but they have to heat up a good bit before they do and if the road is the slightest bit greasy thats it they just slip/slide or spin up. I go into so many roundabouts over here and if you dont ride SM style ie leg out you would be very close to loosing it. Ive found this to be the same with most of the other tyres ive used so far, also because the bikes tall and has less wieght you dont know how far you are leaning over or how fast you enter a corner.

Many thanks guys for all your tips. I think I will dial the rear shock setting to 3 to give it a try. Will keep you posted.

change both shocks
 

Sorry if my remark is overdone, shouldn't you also change the front shock?

I think a lot of it is in the head thanks to the slow stearing and the way too high gear ratio. I took mine to the racing track, had TKC80 fitted so it was hard to keep up with the supersports. :D Anyway, drove it to the limit where I started sliding both front and rear and it was way beyond what I had felt was close to the limit before. Play around with the suspension and trust the bike.

Borus, your remark wasn't overdone, I have thought about changing the front and rear shocks to some after-market brand.

Molgan, that's encouraging to hear there is a big gap between what I thought was the limit and what it actually is.

I've had Tourance before on another bike which worked fine for me. Unfortunaly I was not able to relax with the Tourance on my Tenere in the rain (i live in Holland with lots of rain). Probably the feedback was not clear to me. The Tourance is a good tyre, but appearantly not on the Tenere IMHO

Now I am driving with Heidenau K60 which I also had before on another bike. Now I do understand the feedback again. But I've to admit that after 2000 km I am still not used to the bike.

I do not understand why this need so many time. To be crystalclear, I do love my Tenere but one seem to need some time to be confident (aka be able to play) with this bike.

@Molgan, why should the gear ratio influence that?

To save you some money,

The Transalp 650 was my previous bike. In the Dutch Transalp Association (TCN) the most popular change for this bike was progressive front springs. This already improves very much the suspension of the bike. Almost nobody changed the back spring because you have to dismantle almost 60% of your bike for that. The guys who did that - like me - notice another improvement but not as much as the front springs.

Don't know if the same is true for the XT (Kev?), but maybe front springs only (easier, cheaper) may be a nice start.

Well as I said, might just be in the head. :) I sometimes feel like I don't get enough push in the corners and together with the slow stearing it makes the bike feel like it lack grip up front. The 800 I had earlier was much more pushy and was easier to drift through corners. Do I make any sense? :retard:

you could try dropping fork legs in yokes 12 mm it will steady the bike up with some extra weight over frontend ,once you feel comfortable you can go back to standard settings,99% riding in the wet is in the head .

I'd agree with that - I love the wet, I find I have more confidence in the wet than in the dry. It might be that I spend alot of time on slippery dirt, I don't know.

I'd also agree that the bike takes a bit of rider-bike bedding in - in that it takes time to get used to the bike, and it's easy for me to comment as I've thrashed her about now for over 10,000 miles ( about 16,000 km's).

There are times when I've thought "oh sh1t" but the bike has never let go. I'm not sure what I'm doing different to other guys with Tourances, but my baby is always well planted on the road........

Asking a question related to this thread then. Having recently bought a Tenere, and definatly finding it a lot harder to adjust to than any of the bikes I've ridden so far what would people suggest I do to increace my confidence riding it in the wet/roundabouts etc?

Is there a safer way to practice than to keep going arount roundabounts until I loose grip (and drop the bike?) to determine how much grip I really have? (given I commute on it I can't really afford to drop it or ruin my kit)

Until recently I had a R1200GS(changed it for a Tiger 1050 but thats another story). The thing with the GS is the centre of gravity is very low which makes the bike feel very stable and planted in corners. The XTZ corners just as well(more flickable in some cases) but does not feel as planted. I'm sure it is but just not in my head at the moment. Just a case of being brave and building up the confidence slowly(in my case anyway)

I tried a lot of different tyres on the GS but kept coming back to the Tourance as they offered the best balance between grip and long life so I doubt it's the tyres

regards

Stumpy

drop fork legs like i said earlier ,gives more weight to frontend giving you confidence and stay relaxed.This time of year roundabouts not the best place to build confidence ,go for nice sweepers less dirt than a roundabout.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deiaccord (Post 74649) Asking a question related to this thread then. Having recently bought a Tenere, and definatly finding it a lot harder to adjust to than any of the bikes I've ridden so far what would people suggest I do to increace my confidence riding it in the wet/roundabouts etc? Is there a safer way to practice than to keep going arount roundabounts until I loose grip (and drop the bike?) to determine how much grip I really have? (given I commute on it I can't really afford to drop it or ruin my kit)

Time + Experience = Confidence

ride ride ride - just enjoy the ride, don't worry how fast/lean angle is - just enjoy the ride. Might be a case of going out while you're not on the commute - I find if I'm on the commute I don't realy enjoy the ride (either thinking of work or my tea!).

The key is enjoyment. If you can enjoy the ride through the winter, then come the spring you'll find the confidence is there - and you'll wonder what you were thinking going into winter!!

fully agreed, just ride.

Agree with most that's been said... except about the suspension setup changes. The standard shocks only allow the preload to be adjusted. All you do is change the ride hight and (if only done on the front or rear) slightly the steering geometry. If you want to 'stiffen up' the suspension you'll have to increase damping. You might try a different fork oil (ask an expert) and/or progressive springs is probably a good idea. Take it to an expert, tell him what you want, he'll ask you how and where you like to ride, and he'll fix it.

I think the biggest difference between a R1200GS and the Tenere is the Telelever front suspension, which provides an utter stable roadholding behaviour at all circumstances (I've spend the last 9 years and 170.000 km's on a R1100S/R1200S before changing to the Tenere). No matter what bump you hit, it will not influence the chosen line and hardly changes the steering geometry under compression. In the press it is often criticised for it's 'lack of feedback', but if you're used to it and put confidence in its roadholding capabilities.... you can push VERY hard with great faith. A normal telescopic front end feels wobbly coming from a Telelever bike.

On top of that the GS is a much more road focussed bike then the Tenere. It's suspension more firm, the tires more suitable for tarmac, the front wheel smaller (more flickable especially at speed).

And indeed, the center of gravity of a boxer engine is lower. All together I guess a GS is very hard to beat in the twisties..... but you'll have him eat your dust when you take a dirt track.

Coming from a sports-bike I too had to adapt my riding technique for the Tenere. First of all, the bike moves underneath you .... a lot, due to its long and soft suspension. However this isn't really worrying. Second, for an up tempo ride, move forward (I've tied my tankbag on the rear end), put your head above the bars. Third, don't lean your body into a corner, just push the bike down underneath you. If you've ever taken ski-lessons: it's like skiing: steer from your hips. The wide bars act as a lever which makes it easy to flick it from one side to the other.

On the Tourances: they provide sufficient grip IMO. Even in the wet you'll need to go brutal on the throttle in first or second gear to make the rear loose grip. Remember; compared to a R1200GS there's hardly enough power or torque to find the limits of either the suspension or the tires.

'Free your mind.... the rest will follow' :045:

HJ

That's indeed the thing to do. I've dropped the forklegs (8mm) almost immediately after buying the tenere. Furthermore I've increased the preload on front and back suspension, changed the tires to heidenau k60 and now It steers quickly and still feels planted in the corners.

Very nice write up. Telelever is really unbeatable once you get used to it. Have the same feelings (also coming from 1150 and 1200 GS) and I really have to get used to the bike, but I WILL!

Just a thought.... I too have changed from a GS to the Tenere and struggle to trust the Tourances fitted to it, Though never had a problem with them on the GS.. Could it be that Yamaha have fitted a hard compound version of the Tourance to improve the mileage? Different to the over the counter tyres from the dealers? Some bikes do leave the factory with model specific tyres fitted..