Engine not idling, surging, hard starting, stalling
 

Dear XTers

I'm a new forum member and from Namibia. I recently swapped my seat on a Honda Shadow for an `09 XT660Z. The bike has 53,000km on the clock, but I've had it for less than 200km, so can give little history. In the last two years it hasn't really been run.

When I got the bike it ran perfectly. A few km down the line it started with mild surges when driving in high gear at low speed. This then disappeared and for a few days it ran perfectly. Until yesterday, when it died on me completely. It started surging strongly in gear, dies when stopped, will idle for a while, then stall, when I manage to get it started. Won't rev from idle and backfires mildly.

It has a full tank of fresh fuel. There are no fault codes displayed and the engine check light isn't lit. Visually the fuel pump seems fine and I can hear it running, but I don't know whether it actually generates pressure. I can keep it running with short spurts of Quick-start (to me this means that the fuel supply is faulty, the ignition system should be ok). It had a service very recently, so the spark plugs should be fine, but I will put in a new one, to be on the safe side. When it idles the idle speed is above 1,500rpm.

Any pointers would be welcome.

Best regards
Arthur

personally id check the air filter...check the plugs colour rto see if its running clean and would put something like Redex through the fuel system

Thank you for the advice. I think I can rule out the airfilter, it wouldn't work one minute and nearly completely fail the next. Since the bike has been standing for very long, I can see that cleaning the fuel system would be a good idea. Maybe the injector needle is gummed up or something.

As you said it wouldnt be ok one minute and not the next..but its a start..i had a tissue stuffed in my stock air intack.snorkel when i bought mine..no doubt accidentaly sucked in ...

check the condition/colour of your plug too...

The spark plug was an unhealthy sooty black, but otherwise fine. Replaced it with a new one nevertheless.

Without removing the crank position sensor, its resistance is within spec at 236 ohms. The injector coil resistance is within spec at 11.9 ohms, the primary coil resistance is 4.1 ohms, the secondary coil resistance at 13.2 ohms. The airfilter is fine.

When I switch the ignition on, fuel pressure is delivered for a short while, <3s, then the pump switches off. Strange, I would have expected it to remain on when there's no pressure in the supply line to the injector? I have no way of testing the actual pressure. The airfilter is clean. The air temperature sensor measures 2.31 kilo-ohms (drops to about 1.7 kilo-ohms when I warm it to body temperature), while the manual calls for 2.3 ohms. Since it is reacting, I take it that the ohms in the manual should be kilo-ohms?

The TPS connector is just too difficult to get at, at this stage of the game.

So its running way too rich...did you put same spec plug back in or a hotter one?..does it now start and run?

I had the same symptoms when I was unable to use the bike for 6 months. Added some Sta-bil to the tank and that seemed to fix it. Same problem people have with boats standing idle in winter, fuel goes "off", condensation in tank etc. Alternative is to drain tank and fill with fresh fuel.


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I put in the same plug, CR7E. Fuel system cleaners are harder here to come by than I thought and I don't want to use something that isn't recommended (all the ones I can get look Chinese). I tried fresh fuel already. Nope, the Ten still does the Dodo thing.

I know you said you had filled your tank with 'fresh fuel'...but ....

I would empty the tank and put a full bottle of Redex/Injector cleaner or similar in the tank with half a gallon of petrol and let this run through the fuel system. Not that sure why you put the same rated plug in if its running rich ...is the new plug black and sooty too?

Where are you from?.Namibia...sorry...

Do you not have access to ebay?

Hey Nikroc
I put back the same type of spark plug because I reckon the soot is the result of whatever is misbehaving, not the spark plug having a wrong heat range. Will be difficult to run injector cleaner through the system if the engine can't run. Or do I power the pump and injector separately and just drain into a bucket? Got a tip from a bike technician to run the fuel pump at reverse polarity in a bath of petrol, to flush out any crud that may have accumulated inside the pump.
Yes, I can buy on E-Bay...

you did say it runs,albeit badly, in your first post.

if you access to a bike tech can they not sort it or at the least find you some cleaner?

Very badly. Without Quickstart only seconds at a time. I'm working on getting a tech here over the weekend.

Engine not idling, surging, hard starting, stalling
 

While you have the fuel tank off, check the wiring loom that runs there. Sometimes this rubs against the frame, exposing wires and creating all types of problems. There's a thread on that somewhere over here...

So I got a can of fuel injector cleaner with a courier, put the pump in a bucket of gas, with the injector connected with a pipe to the pump, and connected everything to a battery.

Now I don't know anything about injectors, but I would have expected a fine, powerful spray, like what I'm used to from diesel injectors. Instead I'm getting a very coarse spray, not very powerful at all. Without a pressure gauge it's difficult to say what pressure I'm getting from the pump, but it's very easy to hold the pressure end closed with my thumb. Most pressure then escapes via a coupling between the two halves that houses the fuel pump. Surely that can't be right?

The greatest sound ever, an XT idling. Well, the second best, the best is when it's revving. Apparently there is a second fuel filter, besides the teabag, in the fuel pump assembly. I sent the pump to the agent, who cleaned out that filter and also assembled the holder correctly, apparently I made a half-assed job of getting the o-ring between the two halves properly positioned. She runs!

Glad you got it sorted - and thanks for sharing your experience.
When you were running the pump an injector in a bucket of fuel, did you just connect the pump directly to the battery? How did you trigger the injector?

I connected both directly to the battery, being really careful to cause the sparks on the battery side, and not the bucket side. I was concerned about the injector overheating, but it remained cool for the entire hour.

The /"�&!!! gremlin is back. After getting the bike started, and after driving it for a short trip on that day, the ten started to huff and puff it's way down the gravel road a day later. All hopes that it would disappear by itself are gone again. At least it starts, mostly.

When it's cold, and I mean really cold in the morning or having stood still for six hours or so, it runs normally. But as soon as the engine gets hottish, after maybe half a mile, the misses and surges and mild backfires appear. Which leads me to think it may be the coolant temperature sensor?