What oil to use?
 

Hello,
I have a '05 xt660xx, I know i need 10w40 and see motul 5100 is recommended.

But i'm seeing contradicting info on using synthetic or semi-synthetic oil, what's the best?

Thanks

Nothing wrong with synthetic motorcycle oil. Most of the confusion comes from people using synthetic car oils with friction reducing agents (labelled 'Energy Conserving') which will knacker your wet clutch in no time - Just ask steveD! If buying synthetic, make double sure you check it is marked JASO MA2 which is suitable for (and tested on) motorcycles with wet clutches and shared lubrication of gearboxes and engines.

Question is, does the XT need (or benefit) from synthetic? Probably not. IMHO, save your money and get a good quality semi (like the Motul) and change it often.

Got an answer and I learned something, result :)

cheers mate

I goofed up a bit and put car oil in my tenere before winter storage. Figured any 10w-40 is just 10w-40...guess I was wrong. Looking at the car oil it says semi-synthetic plus that ominous "low friction" stuff. Damn.

To the point: I never drove the bike anywhere after the change. Simply let it idle a couple of minutes then removed battery. obviously I'll change the oil ASAP but do you think the clutch may have suffered already? I guess I'll notice in the spring but if so it would be easier to fix it now when the oil will be drained anyway.

You might get away with it if it hasn't been run for long. Just depends on how much oil, or should I say friction modifiers, the clutch plates have soaked up/been coated with?

Here's SteveD's experience of inadvertent use of "Energy Conserving" car oil in the XT...

http://www.xt660.com/showthread.php?t=23476

I use full synthetic oil in my bike, might that contribute to clanking noise?

My Brother only ever puts car oil in his Hyabusa..nearly 100k on the clock and no problems..

Did oil and filter today 16000 km

https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5474/3...6a37f4a3ed.jpg

I have alway use Motul 5100 but have
put Penrite ST4 in at the last change..
Putting Motul in 3 bikes was getting quite
costly... Penrite is 2/3 of the prise...



..

Far be it from me or anyone else to tell you what oil you should use, or how much you should spend on it, or what brand/grade to use – it is entirely up to you. However, broad statements like

are not really conclusive proof and a little misleading – it doesn’t necessarily mean that car oil is fine in a bike, or should be advised or recommended, just that it worked for him. The point being all good motorcycle oils are thoroughly tested to JASO MA2 standards on wet clutch engines/gearboxes and, as such, are effectively guaranteed not to cause problems; it’s the safe option – you know what you’re getting – they all work. The same cannot be said for car oil. Sure some car oils may work fine, but not all car oils are the same and some won’t. Some brands/types might work in certain applications (Hayabusas) but not in others (XTs). It's all a bit hit-and-miss.

It is well known and documented that “energy conserving” car oils are a disaster for wet clutches. But the thing is, even with ordinary car oil, most manufacturers are very vague about the composition of their oils and, even if you look up the product data sheets, they don’t really ever declare what’s in them. Castrol Magnatec is a good example of such a car oil. There is a lot of pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo talked about “intelligent molecules” and “clinging to your engine forming an extra layer of protection during warm-up and beyond”, but nowhere do they (Castrol) tell you what these molecules actually are, or what they actually do! It’s all a bit of an unknown quantity – a guess, a gamble. They sound a bit like the dreaded friction modifiers in EC oils, but who knows or dares to say? It would worry me that these magic molecules would be clinging to my steel clutch plates and providing an extra layer of slippery protection where it’s not wanted!

Friction modifiers aside, most car oils cannot hold up to the constant high pressures of meshing gears in the transmission either and the oils often prematurely break down and their service life is greatly reduced. Unsurprising really as they were never designed or tested with this function in mind. Another aspect of oil performance in which JASO spec oils are tested to a specified standard.

If you’re trying to save a few bob because you think you don't need bike specific oil then fine, it’s entirely up to you, go for it. You might find one that works well; you may get lucky and enjoy many miles without trouble, but on the other hand you might be unlucky and find one that doesn’t work so well. By choosing a JASO spec oil you are simply eliminating the element of chance/luck/guesswork and maximising the opportunity of enjoying long and happy engine and clutch life; it buys you confidence and that’s worth a lot, and all for just a few quid extra every few thousand miles.

Broad,observational statement ...i consider myself repremanded

:spanking[1]:





.

No need to feel reprimanded � that wasn�t the intention. It was/is a valid observation. It�s just that there needs to be a careful and rational balance between observation, opinion and fact. As many people use this forum as a technical resource they need to be aware of all relevant evidence and information (both observational and factual) in order to make their own informed choice as to what course of action to take, whatever that may be.

It�s a bit like saying � �I smoke forty a day and haven�t got cancer, so therefore smoking is fine and doesn�t cause cancer.� When all the evidence is considered, smoking is clearly not fine and is going to significantly increase your chances of developing lung cancer. But it is �chance�, there are plenty of people who have smoked all their life and never get cancer. Looking in a balanced way at all the evidence allows you make a decision that, whether taking up smoking or using car oil in a bike, will improve the odds in your favour.

The subject of oil always throws up a healthy debate, which is good, so long as those seeking advice on the subject weigh up all the pros and cons of what is being discussed.

So which oil should you put in your XT?

Whatever you want� but consider the evidence first.

Dual, are you going to change it to wet clutch bike oil? (just teasing you!)

Very interesting what Pleiades explained about car engine oil (they have dry clutches separate from the oil) and bikes with wet clutches which do not need extra non-friction modified oil.

I'm confused, the local Midas manager told me it would be fine to use the Magnatec in the bike, and it's not cheap oil
It looks like clutch slipping is the concern? I'm not having any clutch slipping as this seems to be the problem. Are there any other dangers to using this oil?
We looked at he spec of 10W-40 and was advised to use it
I would appreciate any form of advise and info from your guys here and are quite happy to drain the oil and put in what's the right oil

It may well be fine. After all, it isn't an "energy conserving" oil which are the main enemies of wet clutches. But then again, it might not!

Not helpful I know, but as I've said earlier in this thread, car oils and their behaviour are a bit of an unknown quantity in bikes - they're a bit of a gamble. Some work fine, others don't. Depends how much of a gambler you are I guess, as to whether to swap it or not?

I certainly am not a gambler when it comes to my bike
I drove about 200 km's today with wife as pillion, not once had any issues as to slipping clutch, and we had some places where I had to use the clutch on a hill to get out, so, I hope this is the only concern, I'm a bit worried now

Magnatec data sheet

https://c6.staticflickr.com/6/5453/3...d5a808b3_b.jpg

Personally I have only ever used bike specific oils over the past 30 odd years of riding a bike,and I change oil and filter before the recommended intervals.

I also change the oil and filter every 6 months on my car too.

OCD behaviour maybe but for the �25 for oil and filter,for both car and bike respectively its cheaper than an engine rebuild and turbo on the car.

As mentioned before, this is a good example of how vague oil companies are. The trouble is manufacturers never actually say what's in their oils (the chemical composition) in their data sheets; they just give you a sales pitch, so you can't really ever be sure what the magic "magnatec molecules" actually are.

The third bullet point is what my attention is drawn to. "Bond to metal surfaces to make engine parts more resistant to wear", sounds very much like the "magnatec molecules" might be some kind of friction reducing agent, but who knows? Not ideal if these molecules bond to your steel clutch plates and reduce friction.

Issues with incompatible oils rarely show up initially, only after a good few hundred kilometres once it's been fully distributed around the engine, gearbox and clutch. It takes time for friction improvers to build up on internal surfaces. It took SteveD ( http://www.xt660.com/showthread.php?t=23476) about 4-500 miles before he noticed his clutch was slipping after an oil change where "energy conserving" car oil was used by 'mistake'.

I'm in the buy good JAMO spec oil when its on sale. I've shopped mailorder from louis regularly and i've used their fully synthetic 10w50 for years

67100km on 3AJ XT600 & 67600km on a xtz750 with oil and filter change every 6000km

Last time i bought 4 x 4 liters and a few other items. My wife wasn't to happy after picking that one up at the post office ... But at 30€ for 4liters it had to boosts stock.

Last year was the first time i changed oil on my "new" xt660z and used the same oil (and filters) and its about time for another change again (latest at 10.000km according to yamaha - so i go with once a year if i ride less.)

This is what I have started useing....
Austrailin made oil....

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/product...d_products=597




...

I have sent an e mail to Castrol to hear what they say about it
Looks like this is what they recommend

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5534/3...3d22b66e_z.jpg

Act>evo is the one which is matches the recommended spec by Yamaha, but either would be perfectly suitable. Both are JASO-MA2 standard oils.

Be interesting to see what Castrol say about the Magnatec when they reply to your email...

Goodness Pleiades, your words and advice are very very balanced and intelligent, thank you. Over my 35 ish years of bike ownership I have always sought to use only JASO approved engine oil and usually I have kept to a single brand, and I have never had any problems. I was a Castrol man, more recently I have started using Bardahl, but I think that the brand is relative (I think that Yamalube is made by Motul??) the important point is to change it frequently AND of course to use the correct motorcycle oil.

Castrol not happy with Magnatec in bike, no problem on the wet clutch, but it's not a motorcycle oil, apart from that they (he) could not give me more value added info
Also spoke to motorbike mechanic that's quite a specialist, he says that the magnatec can't damage the clutch but he found engines with magnatec, has like a varnished finish to it when opened, he can see it a mile away, not keen on it
I can just say that the magnatec is not a cheap oil, so never my intention to try cheap oil, was advised that the 10W-40 is what's needed and thought that magnatec can add value, indeed not so

Going to drain oil and replace with this

https://c8.staticflickr.com/6/5797/3...007d5abe_z.jpg

Hiya, just check that this oil has the JASO spec and then all is good!!! I did not know they made oil, I thought just additives.....

https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5834/3...1741687635.jpg

Very well said, Pleiades!

Gears, clutch and higher revs are the main differentiators with car oils. But to the point, there are enough good AND cheap motorcycle oils around to f**k around with car or other oils.

That doesn't surprise me at all!

Stick to JASO MA2. You know what you're getting, so you can't really go wrong.