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Yamaha XT 660 Z Tenere with ABS?

Hi everyone!

Being a newbie (only had a morcycle driving course) and still on the search for a first bike, the choice stands now between the Yamaha XT 660 Z Tenere. Normal version vs ABS version.

Last January I went to my local dealer and had the opportunity to have a seat, feel the weight and height of the bike, unfortunately no chance to ride it. The version I ''tested'' was the non ABS version of the Tenere, and those 890mm of seat height it really impressed a bit while standing still, reaching only the floor with the tip of both my feet. I could only get one foot fully on the ground with the bike a bit tilted.

After a bit of conversation with the representative of the Yamaha dealer he told that although it was tall it rode like a ''dream'' bla bla bla.
When I told him that it would be my first bike and asked if the ABS was really necessary, he promptly replied that it was one more thing to rely on from a safety point of view (In the traffic, city ride, rainy weather, emergency stops). It convinced me at the time, but after a while and seeing that the ABS version loses some cm in suspension travel, well is that loss of travel negligible?

Now In a search for more opinions, I know that riding a bike always has its risks, but does it really matter on a 200Kg (plus or minus) bike the ABS? Thinking forward to eventually take the bike in some off road tracks (large roads nothing too technical) does the ABS version (loses some cm on suspension travel) still got what it needs for some adventures off the road and on the road?

Hope you can help.
Kind regards!!

I'm looking for a Z at the moment too and it seems some of the bolt-ons (high front mudguard for one) only fit the non-ABS version, something else to think about maybe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by caea (Post 197996)

Hi everyone!

Being a newbie (only had a morcycle driving course) and still on the search for a first bike, the choice stands now between the Yamaha XT 660 Z Tenere. Normal version vs ABS version.

...

I told him that it would be my first bike and asked if the ABS was really necessary, he promptly replied that it was one more thing to rely on from a safety point of view (In the traffic, city ride, rainy weather, emergency stops). It convinced me at the time, but after a while and seeing that the ABS version loses some cm in suspension travel, well is that loss of travel negligible?

...

Thinking forward to eventually take the bike in some off road tracks (large roads nothing too technical) does the ABS version (loses some cm on suspension travel)

I agree with the salesman :-)

Do you remember the time when ABS became available for cars ? In the beginning nobody thought it was necessary but today everybody agrees that ABS is a good thing.

Back to bikes - If you are a race driver and goes around in circles on a surface with predictable traction you don't need it - but because you will be riding close to the edge you will still crash from time to time ...

If you only ride/race offroad only the best abs systems gives you an advantage over an non abs bike. But you will still ditch it from time to time when you interpret the conditions wrongly.

Most of us spend most of the time on tarmac and in traffic where even a low speed crash easily can be fatal when you are hitting or getting hit by a car.

Even when riding very alert you risk that someone/something gets into you way and you'll have to brake as hard as possible to avoid collision. Murphy law dictates that the surface will probably have less than ideal friction or very changing friction like braking onto spilled diesel. This is the time where ABS makes a difference.

If you lock up your front wheel a skid is very difficult to save - and even if you save it your braking is less than efficient and that could be the difference of an accident or just the need for clean pants.

Now that you have decided on a new xt660z i think the choice is easy.

Unless you go very fast or very technical green laning the suspensions is good enough on the ABS version. And yes some aftermarket parts will not fit but there is still a lot of choice in parts

If on the other hand you were on a strict budget and looked at 5year olds you might not be able to get an ABS version or if you fell in love with a motorcycle that was not available with ABS.

I don't really ride offroad (like deep mud or big rocks) but like to get away from the tarmac like on the small video clip below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRwdDCB5LRM The pony handles that just at well as my old super tenere.

Until I bought the pony last year I had looked more than a year for what should replace the super tenere and ABS was a priority so excluded all KTMs in by budget. In the end it stood between the bmw f800gs and the small tenere. Last august i then saw a low mileage tenere at a reasonable price and bought it.

Like I mentioned on ADV, there�s a difference in suspension height and seat height between the standard Tenere and the ABS Tenere:
ABS: suspension front 160mm, rear 150mm, seatheight 860mm;
Standard: suspension front 210mm, rear 200mm, seatheight 895mm.
Make your choice depending on your own priorities.

Thank you all for the feedback. :)

Must see if I can arrange a test drive on the Yamaha dealer.
Last time I wen't there to see the bike it took them almost an hour to get one, just to see it (apparently the stock here at Portugal is just on request, and after the bike is paid ??).

the only benefit of xt660z with ABS is the lower seat on that version...

Quote:

Originally Posted by kc2ine (Post 201345)

the only benefit of xt660z with ABS is the lower seat on that version...

It is not a benefit since the reason it is lower is that it has lower suspension ...

You can easily lower a standard one or replace the seat if needed...

I'm still considering spending the money to have the seat reupholstered without the pillion lump so i can move my butt a bit forward/backwards for comfort and have it made with a higher density foam. If the Kahedo was cheaper i had already bought the +4cm version, but it is a bit expensive ....

The only benefit of the ABS is the ABS :-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kc2ine (Post 201345)

the only benefit of xt660z with ABS is the lower seat on that version...

The other benefit is the ABS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fridolin (Post 201445)

The other benefit is the ABS.

and the disadvantage of ABS is heavier bike for around 6.5 kg...

Quote:

Originally Posted by kc2ine (Post 201447)

and the disadvantage of ABS is heavier bike for around 6.5 kg...

Ah I see. Safety and secure riding are disadvantages for you. Quite interesting. ABS on a motorbike now a days is a must.
FYI: From 2016 on new motorbike MUST be equiped with ABS. Even in Great Britain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fridolin (Post 201450)

FYI: From 2016 on new motorbike MUST be equiped with ABS. Even in Great Britain.

I will still disable it. You have wrong idea about safe riding, much safer is improve your riding skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kc2ine (Post 201452)

I will still disable it. You have wrong idea about safe riding, much safer is improve your riding skills.

Indeed, you have no idea what save riding is and you don't know what ABS is all about. Following your wrong idea of save riding you don't need a helmet or any protection of your body. Just improve your riding skills and you would never ever have an accident.

I think ABS is a good thing for motorbikes - mostly. Off-road, not so good.

Having said that, I would not sacrifice 25% of suspension travel to have ABS.

Compulsory ABS on motorbikes? What's next? ABS on bicycles? Shopping trolleys?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 66T (Post 201469)

exactly... :icon_rolleyes:

here is just nice write up by abs specialist about how abs can actually kill you :

Quote:

So now, the meat of the message, what your ABS equipped bike CAN'T do:

Can certain conditions make ABS a killer instead of a life saver?
ABS only works with the bike straight up or with VERY limited lean. If you think you can apply the brakes in a lean like you can straight up and think the ABS will save you, IT CAN'T. ABS systems have no "lean angle sensors" to work with the ABS and limit brake application while leaned over. Remember, even a moderate lean angle uses a lot of traction. If you add braking while leaned over you can still loose traction and ABS can do nothing to save your butt. Leaning and ABS braking combined could PUT YOU DOWN!

Keep in mind, ALL ABS systems are intended to maintain vehicle stability and have nothing to do with reduced braking distance. On a bike, ABS ONLY applies to straight line stopping. It is still up to you to keep your head/eyes up, and apply steady progressive braking effort. If you think ABS systems will make you into some kind of Uber-Braking God you could be rudely awakened by a meeting with a Buick grill. The braking is still up to you, ABS simply improves your odds of survival.

Now, THIS IS CRITICAL, and really think about this: in a car with ABS, you can mash the pedal all you want and steer the car clear of an obstacle. On a bike with ABS, if you hammer on the brakes and engage the ABS, and then think you are gonna steer around the grey-hair's Buick bumper, YOU ARE GOING DOWN!!!!!! Remember that bike ABS systems have no lean angle sensor to modify the ABS function while leaning, and a bike HAS to lean to manuever. Leaning in all its glory requires a lot of traction. If you think you can use any of that traction for an ABS stop I pray for your survival. ABS is solely for straight up stops.

So gramma turns the Buick in your path and stops. You hammer the brakes and the ABS kicks in. Then you try to swerve to avoid impact while still on the brakes? Sorry, traction gone, face plant on the hood or ground. ABS or no ABS, the old rule of seperating braking and swerving STILL RULES! This is one scenario where I think ABS could be a killer if you think it does the same control functions as in a car.

Here's another one. Let's say you are riding a nice straight stretch of road, when suddenly a truck ahead pulls out from the Sand/Gravel Pit driveway in your path. You apply the brakes on the clear dry road and sense the ABS engage. But as you get closer and still braking, the bike is now on a sloped sandy apron near the driveway. The front tire now slides down the slope with ABS doing all it can, and the bike has achieved a slight lean. This is a situation where the front tire could now lock up if brake pressure is maintained.

Do speed variations between each wheel sensor and the speedometer effect the ABS controller? Making it default to standard or residual braking? As far as I know, there is no link between the ABS controller and the Speedo on any bike. As I described in my earlier message, the ABS system determines bike speed by getting signals from both wheel speed sensors and calculates a MUCH more accurate real vehicle speed from that info. A speedo is way to inaccurate for that.

ABS is ALWAYS comparing wheel speeds any time the bike is moving just over walking speed. When braking, a variation in wheel speed greater than 20% less than the vehicle speed will enact ABS on that wheel.

If you were to fit one oversize (diameter) tire on your ABS equipped bike, it could mess up the ABS if the resultant speed sensor info was not within expectations of the controller algorithms. If both tires were increased the same diameter it should not matter. But an error signal from one sensor, say due to an oversize tire could cause a fault and the ABS would revert to standard braking and record a fault code. It is also possible that a fault code repeated over and over to the ABS controller could become PERMANENTLY burned into the ABS system memory. In essence "frying" it. I uh, found out the hard way.

Speed variations between each wheel sensor is exactly how the ABS determines whether or not to engage. Let's say you are very adept at spinning the rear wheel through a low traction turn (sliding the bike feet up, no braking), the ABS would sense a broad speed differential between the sensors, but because it also would not sense applied brake pressure (brake system pressure is also a function for ABS engagement) it should not record any fault. Same for a fast take-off with rear tire spining.

How does brake pressure applied and controlled by the user affect ABS, and how can that adversly affect the ABS controllers function? Again, the ABS control is based on 20% wheel slip DURING BRAKING for either tire. No matter HOW you brake, gentle or hammer it on, if the ABS senses 20% wheel slip it will engage ABS control. this applies for any surface, dry road, asphault, concrete, snow, leaves, sand, gravel, oil, anti-freeze, you name it. If the bike is vertical and braking, and one or both wheels slip at the -20% compared to the bike speed, ABS will engage.

Because the amount we brake is dependent on our skill level, preference, traction available, and all the other factors, ALL the ABS knows is whether one or both wheels are "slipping/sliding" under the 20% thresehold below the bike speed. You are the real brains in the braking system. So it is STILL up to you. ABS helps, but don't bet your life on it.

http://forum.motorcycle-usa.com/defa...?f=22&m=314718

That's interesting, and logical, information. Thanks for posting it :coolsmiley: