Somebody please help
 

I took my bike to a place it wasn't meant to go. Deep into a forest surrounded by landslides and boulders i had to cut down trees and lever the boulders out the way. Very hard terrain for even the most skilled of riders never mind a novice like me.

Burnt out my clutch and left my bike stranded in the middle of nowhere. Then I had to walk 9K to the nearest country Road over the same terrain. Hitch a ride home. Next day, Went to the nearest bike shop some 80 K away from my home on my road bike. Clarified that the most likely part that needed to be replaced was the clutch. Then ordered new plates and springs. The next day I repeated the same journey to the bike shop and collected the parts. Today I took the journey back into the forest with the new parts and fitted the new clutch plates etc, Taking care to put them in the right And using the right torque setting etc And Of course change the oil. By the way the clutch was very Badly burnt.

Ok. Turned the bike over put it into first let the clutch out and nothing but the smell of fresh burning clutch once again.

Oh no.

Somebody, anybody help. The guy at the bike shop seems mystified by this problem.

Heres a quick run down of the symptoms.

Badly burnt clutch with particles stuck onto the metal plates from the friction plates.
One friction plate was totally smoothed.
Careful replacement of plates, springs and oil following torque settings.
Then on the center stand, slightly revving for less that one minute in first gear several times resulting in the slightest of power. I could rev the engine and stop the wheel with a finger. All this accompanied with the smell of fresh burning clutch.

Apology for long story

Bad news.

Can't help with a solution, but if no-one can help then post in the Ask Kev section, I'm sure Kev will have a solution.

Good Luck,


Nick.

Did you put the new friction plates in dry? its a wet clutch so needs oil on the plates for them to operate properly, try wetting them with oil before starting bike up, also metal plates could be warped, you can check them on a flat surface for visible distortion, I once put a new clutch in and filled the engine with car oil because it was all I could get and the clutch did the same until I drained it , cleaned the plates off and used proper bike oil, the car oil had additives that made the plates slip because car clutches are dry, bike oil is designed for wet clutches, also tighten opposing spring bolts to equalise pressure, and operate clutch to check its function before starting up again.
Good Luck,
Jim

It’s difficult to say what is the actual cause of your problem is, but it sounds to me like something hasn’t gone back quite as it should?

I can give you an idea of some of the things that have gone wrong for me (speaking from bitter experience) during clutch reassembly (which may or may not help you isolate your problem)…

1) Did you get the anti-judder spring round the right way? One side has “outside” marked on it, which should face you when you look at it.

2) One friction plate has a larger internal diameter than all the others (easily overlooked). This one must go in first.

There are actually three types of friction plate in the clutch pack: 4x Type 1 (notched tabs), 3x Type 2 (colour coded) and the Type 3 (the one with the larger internal diameter). They must be fitted in the correct sequence and be soaked in engine oil first. The sequence is (from first in to last in with a plain plate between each): T3|T1|T1|T2|T2|T1|T1. The T1 plates notched tabs should fit into the right hand one of the two slots marked with triangles (the clutch housing should be rotated to get these slots at the top before you start).

3) If there are gaps between the plates after reassembly it could be that the pressure plate wasn’t located properly in the castellations on the housing. Also make sure the clutch spring bolts were tightened a little at a time in a diagonal sequence and then torqued correctly.

4) When you put the clutch cover back on the release arm will move. It is crucial you get this in exactly the right position to allow for this movement when you push the cover home. If the release arm is in the correct position (before you connect the cable), you should be able to push it forward (until it won’t go any further) to align with the two punch marks (one on the arm and one on the cover). If these do not align when pushed fully forward you will not be able to get the clutch adjusted properly. So take the cover off and rotate the release arm a bit further round and try again until you get it right.

Hope this is of some use to you…

:smilies0944:

Re point 4

The clutch lever punch points need to align when the handlebar lever is activated or pulled in.
NOT when the handlebar lever is disengaged

Which is the complete opposite of what i have done.

When set up correctly the release arm should physically come to a halt at the point where the two punch marks align (all the slack has been taken up) when you push it forward (toward the front of the bike) with your finger. Note: No excessive force is required - you are not disengaging the clutch at this point.

The two punch marks should be aligned (after the cable is fitted) when the clutch is engaged, in other words not squeezing the handlebar lever.

Sounds like you might have the release arm set so the clutch is nearly completely disengaged all the time??


Hell - it's hard to explain this without using your hands and a blackboard! ;)

I need a visual aid!

This is how the punch marks should align with the clutch correctly adjusted when the clutch is engaged, the handlebar lever is not being touched and you should have forward drive!

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/a...psbd98a9aa.jpg

When you pull the clutch lever and disengage the clutch, the top punch mark should move behind the lower one. At no point should the top mark be in front of the lower one.

Re 4

1 Before installing the cover i need to push the lever towards the front of the bike so that the points align (as if the cable is being pulled by the handlebar lever but its not connected yet).

2Then install the cover

3Connect the cable to the lever and then align the points while no external pressure is being applied. (Kind of the opposite of 1)

No. (Because the release arm will move itself as you replace the cover.)

Fit the cover and tighten the cover bolts finger tightish. Push the release arm forward until it stops with your finger. If it doesn't align, take the cover off again, mover the release arm either forward or back the necessary amount (bit of guesswork needed), then refit the cover. (You will have to take into account how much the release arm moves when you push the cover home.) Push the release arm forward again and see if you are any closer to the marks being aligned.

BTW - you can do it an easier way if you get stuck the above way: Take the circlip, washer and spring off the top of the release arm and move it round on its splines to get it right.

There is a certain amount of trial and error involved, but you'll get there in the end!

Dear pleiades

What i am having are hard time to clarify in my head is the kind of conflicting process of the following point.


1Push the lever as far forward as you can and align the points in this positon.

2then attach the cable.

Finally align the points so that they align when no force is appled (the lever is in the opposite position to that of when it was aligned in 1)

The release arm (let's not call it a lever as that's confusing!), when the cover is fitted, should be aligned by the punch marks with no cable attached and pushed forward with your finger. Pushing it forward with you finger just takes up the slack that the release arm spring creates as it wants to pull the arm back. It is also a visual identifier that the clutch is at the last point at which it will be engaged; any further forward movement in the arm will start to disengage the clutch plates.

When you fit the cable, hold the release arm so it stays aligned by its punch marks (which you have already set in 1). That will then give you a good starting point to adjust the clutch free play as you know that the actuating mechanism is right on the point of engagement/disengagement.

Went bAck into the forest for the fourth time and still no joy. The time of work is killing my family and leaving my new bike in the middle of no where is terrible.
And to be honest im loosing faith.

Took out the new clutch and luckily it looks all new and healthy. Also in the right order. Damper spring facing out. However my service manual differs from peilates advice and says only the last plate punch marks should be in notch d.

Also": T3|T1|T1|T2|T2|T1|T1. The T1 plates notched tabs should fit into the right hand one of the two slots marked with triangles (the clutch housing should be rotated to get these slots at the top before you start"

The last sentence quoted to rotate the slots to the top. I could not do.
Be grateful for any help

Unfortunately I have not had an xt clutch apart but you should be able to rotate the basket with the spark plug out so there is no compression on the engine and flick the starter button to bring it round or stick the bike in top gear and rock the back wheel, its possible to move the basket other ways but if you lever it with something they are pretty fragile and you risk breaking something. hopefully Pleiades will be along with a better description as he seems to have more knowledge on this engine.
Best Regards,
Jim.

Pictures are sometimes worth a thousand words.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...psd9383d39.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps8b5f4c17.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps2626c601.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...psac2a814a.jpg

Here is the current situation that I left my bike in. Checked new clutch plates etc were In the right order. Followed the advice of pleiades and adjusted the release arm lever, at the same time changed the oil filter.

The adjustment of the Release Arm lever made the rear wheel turn A little bit faster which was reassuring. But alas after hours of tampering the sun going down I had to get out the forest very disappointingly. I could still stop the rear wheel with the slightest touch of my foot while it was revving high in first gear.

Yeah thanks Kev. I bought the same manual of you a few weeks ago I referred to it all the time As well as the advice of jim and pleiades but no break through. I am seriously thinking i will have to give up on the nicest and most expensive item i have ever owned. Freaking out. No break threw and running out of time.

By the way on the final adjustment the clutch went really tight on both the Rear arm and the handlebar lever.

Just a thought - Why not do a test to see if the clutch is assembled correctly and will actually bite? The following test should highlight whether it is the clutch pack assembly itself, or the operating mechanism...

Remove the clutch cable completely and the let the release arm go slack (so it isn't doing anything). Stick the bike in first, make sure the back wheel is clear of the ground, start it (you'll obviously have to hold the clutch lever even though there's no cable attached as its in gear), and see if you have drive.

If you do: the clutch pack is assembled correctly and and the problem lies with the release arm/cable/lever adjustment and alignment.

If you don't: The cluch assembly is at fault and will need another look.

Do you have any photos of the clutch been assembled?

In my 33 years of working on bikes I have never seen or heard of a brand new clutch pack burn out as you describe. If there is no drive through the clutch pack it could be assembled incorrectly, if the spring tensions are incorrect the clutch pack is not pulled together tightly so causes a slip, is there free play in the clutch lever at the gear box end to release bearing which will cause the clutch pack to have no tension so slips. Are you sure that the outer clutch hub is lined up correctly with the inner hub grooves if not the clutch puck will have no tension? Is the clutch cable seized causing the clutch to slip.

These XT's do not suffer from clutch problems in their standard form.

You say the clutch is assembled correctly & the spring tensions are correct, if it is it would not slip.

That sounds like a great idea. So I unlink the clutch cable from the rear arm. Put the bike in first and then start the engine. If the cable and the release arm are not attached why do i need to use the handlebar lever.

...because the clutch inhibitor switch will stop the bike starting if it thinks it's in gear and the clutch lever is not pulled in! You need to do pull the lever in to fool the bike into starting.

In actual fact the new clutch has not burned out as I thought it had as the smell of the old burnt out clutch must have lingered

Chapters 5-38 Of the service manual. There's a picture at the top Of the clutch housing. The triangle marked notches Are positioned at the top Where As mine are off to the right hand side. Would this Be enough to prevent the clutch from working.

However that's how it was with the old clutch and the old clutch was working very powerfully

How do you undo tighten the clutch boss nut without the clutch housing from turning also it turns when tightening the spring nuts

Try putting it in gear and holding back brake on.
You shouldn't need to undo the nut holding the basket on to change friction plates.
best regards,
Jim

If there are no clutch plates inserted the hub and basket will rotate independently of each other. You can easily make a clutch holding/locking tool out of one of your old friction plates and one old plain steel plate. Rivet them together, then place them in the clutch basket, which should lock the basket and hub together stopping them rotating separately.

Then (as Jim says) you can put it in gear and hold the rear brake to get everything locked up – bit tricky on your own though.

You can use a small ratchet or luggage strap through the rear footpeg loop and down round the actuating arm for the back brake, then tighten it whilst applying pressure on brake pedal or depending on position of bike put a loop around pedal and adjust it so you can put it round your foot to hold brake on while you are working.
Good luck and let us know if your successful.
Jim

The first thing I did when I got back tonight was thank you guys. you guys are tremendous. thank you very much. All of the advice added up together seem to Click together and it finally moved. Dont know why but The biggest thing that really made a difference was to disengage the clutch wire and test it in gear. .
That s not in the manual.

One more 16 k hike tomorrow to collect my tools and my road bike.
Totally knackered

Yeah! , Congratulations, its good when it all comes right in the end :)
Best Regards,
Jim

Thanks mate. Now just looking at the total cost of the ride I took I don't know what I was doing riding through landslides and sh**. Four days off work and a totally knackered body + parts.
And the cheapest oil i could find. Not sure if its worth putting expensive oil in or not.
Anybody wondering about crashbars they're worth their weight in gold.
Need a new brake pedal. I think i need a flexible one. any ideas?

:woo:

Well done - You got there in the end!

Manuals are good, but thre trouble is they're always written/photographed in a pristine workshop, with all the tools and usually the engine out on a bench - you were working in the middle of nowhere! It is experience that helps in these situations; you've gained more of that over the last few days and learnt a great deal to you help out next time. (Let's hope there isn't a next time though! ;) )

As you were working in the field (so to speak), it may be wise to put some cheap oil in for 500Km or so, just to flush out any debris that might of got in whilst you were working on the clutch and to allow for the new clutch plates to bed in. (Make sure you use proper motorcycle oil though and not synthetic stuff.) Then change to a good oil, or whatever you use normally and it's probably worth doing the filter again for the sake of a few quid.

I Have to say a big thank you to you. you have helped me out numerous times.

I had to hammer the clutch again to get out of there for a good few hours. Do you think it would be safer to change it again.

Is that super grade or racing oil worth the extra expense? What is it? Im guessing the particles are finer.

Good to hear you got it sorted & back home...

I take my XTR into some pretty rough terrain at
times..But I have a 48t rear sprocket on... use
14t / 15t or 16t engine sprockets.. (need 2 chains)
16/48 for longer road trips.. "Same as the standard gear ratio"
14t or 15t for the gnarly stuff...
Also has a Rekluse EXP auto clutch in it... is almost cheating
when yer in the really rough tight crap..

What I'm saying the bike will do it..But gear it for where
you are going...

Thanks. I have a 48t rear and 15t front was thinking of going down to 13t for the. Weekends. Just a bit worried about excess wear from the weekly change of sprocket.

Looked into the rekluse still not sure what exactly it does.

Personally, I'd live with it for a while and see how it goes. Change it at the first signs of any slippage.

Not really, jsut stick with a good quality semi-synthetic like the Motul 5100 (which is the what the Yamalube oil is your dealer would use).