Dude, your attitude is making me uncomfortable, this is my last warning. I can do without this, and so can every one, if you can't play nice, then please see if you are man enough to exercise this same attitude in a real life environment, like a pub for instance, in a face to face discussion with real people you have just met, I'd suspect that if you behave like this with people you don't know that well, that you'll end up going home with a bloody nose.

We don't do bloody noses here, but we can be just as cunning by deleting unwanted members, banning IP addresses for life, and nasty stuff like that, oh yeah if the proverbial hits the fan, I can be a right 4 letter words whichever one you wish to use.

Dear fellow XT660.com members, please take careful note the following:

We are not a restrictive forum, and we want to give everyone here a warm welcome and the freedom to express whichever opinion they might have, provided it is done in true politeness and not in an inflammatory fashion among others.

That is our main goal, also we do not enjoy curbing, banning and reprimanding people, in fact, my theory is that if someone "briefly" steps out of line, it may be because he / she has not yet got accustomed with the way people are allowed to enjoy total mature serenity while visiting our forum.

It is my job and that of the moderators / admin to quickly steer the person that is "rocking the boat" in the right direction, we don't just ban anyone unless they really go out and out crazy on us, instead we hope to give them a chance to understand their shortcoming and learn to blend with the rest of the members here. If our polite approach doesn't work and it means we've got a bad apple that just won't change its ways then the ultimate decision becomes inevitable.

To be honest with you all, I really am very busy trying to keep this place enjoyable for our visitors and our members, coupled with the fact that I do have a real day job, so from my perspective, this would be the only forum I visit, I really have no time, to read other motorcycle sites at all, so I don't know what goes on "next door" so to speak, however a few of you who are members of various other bike forums have pointed out to me something that up until this morning I was not aware of, and the reason I am making this public is because I want to try and behave differently from all the other forum admins / owners that will be listed below, and because I want to offer kc2ine a chance that no other forum owners has given him, so please read on...

Someone said to me, well I am also a member of such and such forum and guess what Mr. kc2ine has joined a number of them and has been banned from all of them for aggressive posting, and impolite behavior in general.

And the list is as follows, (it even includes a Skoda car forum for goodness sake!)

1) nc-700.com forum http://nc700-forum.com/forum/members/kc2ine.html
kc2ine
Banned

2) advrider.com http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...5#post24467245
status show user awaiting email confirmation, this means his registration has been voided / suspended or banned in other words he is unable to post there anymore

3) Triumph rat.net forum http://www.triumphrat.net/members/176841-kc2ine.html
user Banned.

4) Briskoda.net (A car forum!!) http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic...2#entry3399892

the last also shows that he has attempted multiple registration of the same forum using alias, kc2ine - Duplicate of Skodass which was a duplicate of offnote.

----------------------------------------------------------

Now based on the above track record I have received suggestions from other moderators to remove the problem before it escalates, i.e. to just ban kc and the sunshine band altogether and get rid of a potential bad apple, but I won't do that, at least not before I have appealed to the person in question as follows:

kc2ine, as you can see cards are on the table. We have all shown our hands, and it seems that you have had some degree of trouble in other forums, which lead you to get banned from them, I could probably search for more, but I can't be bothered.

Let's face it, your "infractions" in xt660.com were classed by me as "benefit of the doubt" close to the edge but not yet worthy of serious disciplinary actions, however the buck stops here, I have intervened with you yesterday in this very thread and now I want to offer you a fair chance to prove to us all that you can be polite, and ultimately show all those other forum that banned you, that there is someone (us) who will give you a lifeline, and a fair opportunity to allow you to retake your steps and get inline with the flow of a decent forum. This my friend is the opportunity I am offering, if it was down to the moderators, you wouldn't have this chance, but me? I'm different. So prove me right, or otherwise you know what will happen.

It's blue pill / red pill time:

You take the blue pill, and you will chill the **** out, behave like a gentleman, you get to keep the forum membership and make some good friends here.

You take the red pill, act like a **** again and you'll be out of here before you know it, without further warning.

You decide your own future in :660:

over and out



---

Can we assume from the above that Mr kc2ine hasn't given us engine failure statistics?

Because, believe it or not, I'm actually very interested to find this out. Is there a way, anyone? My feeling is, though, that it's a pretty good motor providing some preventative maintenance is fed to it.

Having said that, my previous remark re Bartosz's jumping his Tenere causing catastrophic engine failure was out of line, I think. Since seeing his riding in living, moving colour, I too would hope that a Tenere could deal with that kind of operation. Sorry mate, I thought you were pulling sort of reduced mx-style jumps.

I wonder if it's worth going the metallurgical route and getting the busted gears tested? On the face of it, these failure shouldn't happen, but no-one can be responsible for any previous owner's work, either. As has been pointed out already.

Well, I will not comment this, it doesn't touch me even if I'm Italian, but it may be interesting for others to know this Yamaha bike is pretty much an Italian bike.
Much of the design and development has been carried out in Italy, in Gerno di Lesmo (Monza), as well as assembling of the first production batch.
Engine is Minarelli.
Brakes are Brembo.
Forks are Paioli.
Steering bar is Tommaselli.
Rims are Sanremo.

I changed my exhausts with GPR, and 28' steering bar with risers by Buzzetti, and those aftermarket parts are Italian too and I know they are used worldwide.

So it may be an issue to some and a good thing to others, I don't care, but yeah, the new T�n�r� is very much Italian. :-)

Are the rims on the T�n�r� Sanremo?? the XTX/XTR have Takasaki ones... I didn't know that :)

http://www.oldmanthatcansee.com/wp-c...8/P1060390.jpg
http://www.oldmanthatcansee.com/wp-c...8/P1060388.jpg

One more to add. :003:
My 2009 Tenere (10k) is now sporting a 2012 engine/gearbox. Wonder if some vintages are more prone than others. Can we put years next to those listed above?

I was surprised to feel that there is an obvious difference to the way my bike shifts now, I can downshift multiple gears without letting clutch go, sth that my old gearbox was very reluctant to do. It's a bit less clunky and a thump after putting first gear is less of a thump. Could there be some symptoms?

Came across a lot of dead 660 engines while looking for a replacement, all were 2008-2010.

Mine was a 2009.

Interesting thread indeed, shame about the need for warnings but lets ignore. My opinion is as follows:

1. The XT is NOT a Japanese bike. It is a Yamaha assembled in Europe with some excellent European components.
2. The reliability of the XT (I have owned 3 XTXs over the last few years) is awful compared to any Japanese Yamaha.
3. In my opinion this lack of reliability is not connected to the components, rather it must be the assembly.

I have owned perhaps 12 Yamahas (and Hondas before that) and I have never had any reliability problems before the XTs. BUT of course I love the XT for its unique character, but I have just sold my blue beast for a new MT 09.

It's interesting that they don't sell the xt in japan. They did sell the r for a while but was quickly withdrawn. Personally one of the reasons a got the xt was for its superior reliability according to some . Now I'm gutted.

Don�t be gutted � it might never happen! In fact, it very probably isn�t going to happen.

There have been nearly 4500 XT660s sold in the UK alone, so a handful, maybe six cases here (and that�s not just in the UK) means that statistically it�s extremely likely to NOT happen. To be precise that�s about a 0.1% chance based solely on UK sales. If you take on board world sales being in the region of 20K since 2004 (and that�s not including Derbis, MT-03s etc.), then your chances of it going pop are down to less than 0.03%.

But hey, let�s be positive, that means there�s a 99.97% chance of your XT660 gearbox being perfectly fine! ;)

Marques is gutted???? But surely that seems strange. Sure, you found a problem, but please show me the engine that has no problems...........I think that it cannot exist!!!!

Reliability
 

On my XT660Z riding from Essex uk, i have toured around Yorkshire, Scotland, Cornwall, and France, never ever having one problem.
Push the button and she fires up every time and takes me wherever i want to go without a any hesitation whatsoever in any weather or conditions.
Look on the internet and see how many off/on road touring holiday companys all over the world use them on their fleet because of the genuine capability and trust they have in this model.

There are many bikes with failures, many with bad designs and many with build quality issues, but... Not that many of them with gearboxes falling apart after 12k miles of normal use with scheduled services.
Small percentage? Well, try to understand this when your bike falls in this small percentage.
One thing i know for sure - i won't recommend XT to anyone - delicate bike with rubbish gear ratios for offroad (i have only understand this after i switch to KTM).

There's one more thing i would like to point out - Someone has said, that 5 cases in thousands of sold bikes is not a lot... Now questions:

1. How many XT owners are actually registered on forums?? I know 6 Tenere owners and only 2 out of 7 are registered on this forum... What is the real ratio of owners to forum members???

2. How many owners will share this bad experience online??? True is - if you share this online it will stay there for ages, and it won't help you sell your bike in the future and might cause problems if next owner find out the history. I have been asked by many people why i announcing things like that instead of repairing and selling the bike ASAP.

3. So how many XT's are falling apart? Maybe we are seeing only top of the iceberg over the water? :-)

I'll try and answer your questions (IMVHO).

Of course, it's difficult to say, but out of the nearly 10,000 registered members here, a good portion would have owned one at one time or another. There are, without doubt, non-owning members, and members who have sold their bikes on, but even if it's only a half, that's still a lot of bikes!

It is a fact there have been 4551 XT660s registered in the UK (up to 31st March 2014), and as I mentioned before, that's just in the UK. So which ever way you dress it up, XTs with gearbox failures form a miniscule proportion. Even if there were fifty dead gearboxes just in the UK, it would still be just 1%.

People with an axe to grind generally shout the loudest, so you'd actually expect there to be a disproportionately larger proportion of owners sharing bad experiences. People who are happy with their bike, generally just ride it and get on with it and don't bother with forums, for those that have problems usually their first port of call is to go to a forum, to either search for a solution, or try and find out if others have had the same trouble - strength in numbers and all that.

Believe me, I've done it. When the main bearings failed on my 2 year old, 23,000 mile Subaru (which had been dealer serviced and owned by me from new), the first place I went was online, joined uklegacy.com and spent a few hours trying to find others with similar concerns and posted a couple of moans.

Six, maybe seven, perhaps ten, maybe a few more. The point is we don't really know, and it will be impossible to find out. But you can, without doubt say it is a statistically small proportion.

I must make it clear that I, and probably all the others who have contributed to this thread with positive reviews of the XT660, are not having a "pop" at those who have had the misfortune of having a wrecked gearbox/engine. All we are trying to do is redress the balance, give both sides, another outlook and be realistic and in my case, try and damp down a little of the scare mongering.

Poor marques is clearly having sleepless nights over his XT gearbox, which is why I felt obliged to put his mind at rest, instill some Karma. I wouldn't want everybody who owns an XT here, or in the wider world to start having unnecessary nightmares about their bike's gearbox exploding and to stop enjoying their bike for fear of it happening based on a handful of XTs that manifest the problem. It is nothing to do with re-sale values, or sullying the XT660's reputation that I wish for calm, it's just that it isn't always constructive to stir up panic and worry in others in these situations. Yes, let the world know your gearbox has broken by all means, and you don't like the gear ratios and it's a bit flimsy, that's abosolutely fine, it's your opinion, but I'm really not really sure anyone can justifiably suggest this issue "maybe the tip of the iceberg" and Armageddon is just round the corner for all XT owners! ;)

Bartosz, believe me, I can empathise with you, I really can, and all the other guys who've had the same problem. I would be equally pi55ed off and "gutted" if the same happened to my bike, and I would more than likely tell everyone here if it did too! But, being a realist, I'd like to think I'd take a rational outlook after the initial anger had subsided; as I indeed found with my Subaru woes...

There aren't many �27,000 new modern cars, especially Japanese ones, whose main bearings fail after just 23,000 miles of normal use and with scheduled dealer stamped services! With the Subaru though, I soon realised (after online research and forum surfing) there were just six cases in the UK (statistically small numbers as with the XT), all apparently caused by poor cleaning of swarf and debris out of the oil-ways on assembly - it didn't in fact mean impending doom for every Subaru Legacy Boxer Diesel owner in the UK, it was just a handful of cases caused by sloppy assembly, for a few unlucky owners (me being one of them). Maybe if we get fifty or a hundred cases of XT gearboxes going AWOL, we can start to legitimately suggest the tip of the iceberg is becoming visible and we can all start panicking and jump ship.

For now, let's keep calm, it's a legitimate concern, no doubt, one that we should all be aware of, but there's no need to give everybody grey hairs - not just yet anyway! ;)

What is interesting though, is that all the bike's with failed gearboxes recently (except Chenko's) are blue, 2009 and are Tenere's. Why isn't this happening as often with the XTX/XTR? Are they better? Why aren't white, red or baby-sick Teneres prone to the problem? Maybe we can draw other conclusions?Maybe this is where we should be diverting our attention... :eusa_think:

Help! All of the above...
I'm not intending to create a minefield here, but I worked for a Husky dealer in 2010. The for strokes were going 'bang' everywhere. Once the firm pulled its head out of its ����, and ran recommended 10W-60 oil, the problems almost stopped completely. Could it be that a heavier oil might protect the gearbox better, especially if it's flimsy as has been suggested.
Just a thought... Keep calm, people, it's not a rule!

mmmmm...interesting opinion based on your experience...

....I run my moto on 10W50 100% synthetic rather than 10W40,because it's �8.50 for 2 litres here.

I have 38,000kms hard and fast kms on my 2008 model with oil changes every 5000kms.

It'll be interesting if I get any problems manifesting especially as I ride back to Maroc next week,not only on 1400kms off road but long autoroute rides to get there.

I wonder if this idea is why KTM use 10W60 (as far as I know)on the fragile 690 engines?...


.

Maroc !!!!! you kept that quiet :llorando[1]: couldn't have made it though , i have to go to the UcK
Stay in touch though mate and i will come down for a brew !!!

10w60 .......yes very interesting , can't hurt and i'm due an oil change

Eve'nin Phil....

Just skipping over to recce some more trails....Super U locally are selling 10W50. Just changed the oil/filter today.The oil that came out was still OK to be honest...but for that price why not?

As an aside keep an eye on your pins on the brake callipers. My front ones had dried up making the callipers not have any movement. The inside of calliper had just started to rub on one of the discs. Got it in the nick of time. My fault:I should've kept them greased up.

The parts diagrams show that you can't buy each screw in,black Japanned pin to replace any that are corroded but that you have to buy the pin and the alloy bit that it screws into.

As they're Brembo maybe there's a crossover moto that'll have them for sale separately?

Anyhoooo.....I guess KTM will be the first parts diagrams to go hunting over these coming Winter nights!

:)


.

Cheers mate on the pins and oil

Back to the oil subject !!!

Just done an oil and filter change on my DR650, 2.4 lts and because i only had 1 ltr of bike oil and 1 ltr of cheap Leclerc car oil i topped it up with 0.4ltr of DIESEL OIL !!!!!! hell she sounds SWEET :emoticons:

Phil

Good stuff, mate! I sometimes wonder whether it's worth the panic!

I just done a oil change on my TTR250 & boys chinese 125 pit bike
with Motul 5100 "Yamalube"
The pit has been running 20/40 Mobil 2000 car oil... gearbox stiff/crunchy
& near impossable to find neutral
After 5 mins with the motul in it.. box is smoother & neutal
is easy to find..very easy..

So theres oil & theres oil..

my XTR has never had anything but Motul in it 42,000k and counting... "fingers crossed"






.

Bang, bang, bang... 2008 22,000miles
 

So during a little trip to Morocco in May the gearbox stuck in 4th gear... This was the day after a long day on fairly tough trails, and a day of more trails and tarmac... all at 30+c temps. I assumed it was vapour lock or some such problem due to the heat. I managed to bang the gear unstuck... changing the oil on Larache beach was interesting, but nothing appeared in the oil or the filter. I rode back through Spain to Santander and then from Plymouth to the edge of London.

Over the following few weeks it happened twice more and both times I managed to bang it unstuck.

During this time the bike would struggle to select 4th... this was cured to an extent by slowly changing, taking time to pull the clutch in properly etc...

Anyway in October the bike started to rattle a bit, so I took it in to my dealer for a full service... and they found one of the dogs. Following a full engine strip they found two more... 4th gear was operating for 5 months on just 2 of its 5 dogs. Fortunately they didn't decide to tour the rest of the engine and no further damage was incurred. The rattle turned out to be a loose crank shaft lay key... apparently the torque setting was changed on later models (?)

The pivot arm bearing had cracked and was effectively gone.

At the dealers I go to, mine is the second bike with this exact problem to have occurred. Now fully rebuilt and running fine... the bill? Well the part is �35, to get to it and put it back together, �600 labour! All in �950.

Two lessons. 1st When it ain't right. It ain't right. Bite the bullet and get it sorted earlier rather than later. 2nd Amazing how you can ride round a problem and have the engine / gearbox survive.

I think it's been suggested before... But it sounds as if there's nothing really wrong with the gearboxes. That pivot arm bearing seems to be the real factor, which is not a comfort to those of us with blue 2009-build Teneres.

I think a spare one plus gaskets might be a good idea to have for the most likely candidates eg me.

Btw, is it just me or don't the XTX/XTRs have any issues with that bearing? if not, why not, I wonder?

Whew , just glad I got a French built Z, those buttery croissants should keep it sweet

No. The pivot arm bearing I'm referring to is actually called a 'stopper lever assembly', and it lives behind the clutch, attached to the gear lever shaft. It locates the gearshift drum in correct position for each gear.

As I understand it, the bearing that is on this arm and locates the shift drum fails, allowing two sets of gearwheels to fight it out as to which gear ratio is selected. Result - breakage.

I think that us calling it a pivot arm bearing has led to confusion. Sorry mate.

My stopper lever assembly was definitely fubar... but, the other bike the shop has dealt with didn't have this fault. The mechanic explained to me that the bearing on that pivot shouldn't be carrying any load (hence surprise that it had gone) so why would it fail? Mine had a crack right through the housing...

Well if (as it seems reading this thread) the problems seem to come on the Tenere and NOT on the XTX and XTR, then I suggest that the off road riding is the likely difference???? Surely the transmission is more stressed off road than on road, so can this factor explain why only the Tenere seems to have this problem???????

I don't think so... I've had an X and abused it on road, probably more than the Ten has ever had. And lots of folks have used the R for off road. It'd be interesting to see if the part no's are the same... (going to check now that I've thought of it).
The mechanic at my dealership reckons the design of that particular gear isn't great. The flange that the dogs sit on is particularly thin (designed that way?) and with the heat cycles maybe the flange becomes weakened.
As for the stopper lever assembly failure, could this be forcible gear changes offroading, or leaving your foot on the lever too long? I tend to have the habit of double tapping into first gear... does the second tap put stress on the bearing?

Yep, same part number.... 5JW181400000 for the Stopper Lever Assembly

Mate, I'm no kind of mechanic, but it doesn't seem likely as there is a limit to how far the gear lever can travel - as far as I know that's controlled by the stamped metal plate which usually holds the detent spring.

I think it must be poor quality which allows the bearing to fail (oh really?). And it's obviously random, since there are some blue Teneres which have travelled a long, long way without that item failing. Bloody thing.

Sorry to keep on about this stopper lever assembly, but I've found out that the same part number 5JW-18140-00 (add another 00 if you're American) was fitted to the FJR1300 series, and even a Yamaha outboard!

So why do Teneres have the only ones to fail? Heavier detent spring? No idea.

I have a black 2009 Tenere with 40000ks on the clock, sometimes have trouble shifting into 3rd gear when gunning it, all other times is OK just when I give it some beans. Could this be the first signs of trouble...

Quite possibly. Probably worth investigating.

If there's one thing we have all learnt from this, it's worth checking your gearbox at the first sign of something being a miss, rather than soldiering on - especially if it's a 2009 model Tenere.

YES. Mine ended up sticking in gear. Forcing it out is probably what broke the dogs. Fortunately they didn't do any more damage, but looking through this thread that was just pure luck... still costs a grand to have a dealer fix it...

Hi guys,

i'd like to add my experience. I've been having 2009 Tenere for over a year. Bought it with 11,000 km on the clock. Use it on road, off road, long distances. Have to say i was enjoying the bike lately a lot.

But last trip didn't end up well. Went for a four days trip with my girlfriend. Things went wrong already on day 1. Was riding on a dirt road up the hill, suddenly the bike shuts off and rear wheel lock. We were stuck in the middle of the forest and luckily with the help of other people got to the nearest town. Long story short. Gearbox. After 26,000 km? R u serious Yamaha?

The gearbox still in, so don't know how big the damage is, but find out soon...


http://imageshack.com/a/img910/2429/bh3zKJ.jpg

Yep... that's the same old issue... if you've got the dog out the bottom of the box you're lucky... you may not have caused too much damage elsewhere. But it is a full engine out and gearbox apart job to fix it.
Yamaha have a lot to answer for regarding this failure... there are other issues which are minor and can be 'excused', but gearboxes breaking after about the same distances on multiple early bikes, is not on... only for them to completely ignore the issue because they are 'out of warranty'... I wonder if there is anything in UK law regarding fit for purpose and what sort of timescales are 'reasonable'... any ideas anyone?

So, this is the result...not happy at all...disaster...

http://imageshack.com/a/img538/7523/cBxQpm.jpg

http://imageshack.com/a/img538/9060/YwDUNR.jpg

http://imageshack.com/a/img673/4381/5iywdB.jpg

http://imageshack.com/a/img661/7470/7WSoGG.jpg

Commiserations MrKonik... if your bike only had 11000kms on it, what year is it?

Are we all sitting on our bikes, just waiting for another gearbox failure????

Yet another 2009 model...

Unless I'm mistaken every single one of the bikes that has shown this problem has been a 2009 XTZ.

Not necessarily, but it would seems as though it is statistically more likely if your bike was from 2009.

Looking again at the evidence: All Teneres, all 2009, would suggest that the problem is one of poor manufacture rather than poor design. If it was down to poor design then you would expect a random sample of XTRs, Xs and Zs from 2004 to 2015 to show the problem with almost equal distribution amongst the years of manufacture. As it appears to be one single year of one particular model, it would tend to suggest that a "bad" batch of poorly cast dogs was fitted (or some other related part that causes the dogs to break) at some point in 2009. Still an issue to which Yamaha should be responsible for and moreover, responsible for correcting.

I still don't believe we are "all" sitting on bikes waiting for gearbox failure though, there's no evidence to suggest this, just some evidence pointing to a possible "bad batch". Now if you bike falls into that "bad batch", then there probably is due reason to be concerned, but as I've said before, not necessarily to panic.

Now being objective about this, and as there is weight in numbers, I would suggest a logical next step would be to try and collate some frame and engine numbers for the bikes that have exhibited gearbox failure. Let's see if we can identify some sort of pattern, see if there is a common factor. It is this kind of evidence Yamaha will react to rather than ramblings on a forum and complaints from individuals. I am more than happy to chase this one up with Yamaha, collect the frame/engine numbers, analyse the data and presented it in collective communication if people so desire?

I wouldn't like it to happen to me and therefore I am quite happy to do my bit, but we will need hard evidence, facts and figures if we're going to get anywhere with it.

Over to you...

2009, with 26,000km

I have no problem with that...I did actually go to local Yamaha dealer and told him about that. Service manager said he doesn't know anything about this issue. I've been told to bring the bike (the engine was already half open back in my garage) and they will try a warranty claim from Yamaha. I gave up. I would have to put everything back and bring it to them. If Yamaha refuse to pay, they charge me for work. And I don't have log book as I was doing the service by myself...

now looking for new engine :stirpot:

quick question to other happy guys with 2009 broken engine - what gear wheel failed on yours? mine was 4th gear...be interesting if all failures happened on same gear...