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.: XT660.com - The #1 XT660 Resource :. ( https://www.xt660.com/index.php)
-   Suspensions & Steering ( https://www.xt660.com/forumdisplay.php?f=50)
-   -   A few thoughts about progressive fork springs... ( https://www.xt660.com/showthread.php?t=19823)

Ziggy99 08-09-15 02:10
In my city there are a couple of suspension specialists who can rework a shock and make improvements without you having to shell out bikkies for an aftermarket model.

I would say that if you have preload adjustment on forks or shock getting the static sag right is the first thing to do. If you can't get near the right amount you're up for a stiffer or softer spring.

Next would be a service, as suspension is a wear item. Oil's the obvious thing to change. You'll notice erratic damping as it thins out. I wouldn't expect more than 15k kms out of hard road riding with the fork and double that with the shock.

Shock oil should also be changed and while the mechanic is doing that he can look at bushes and seals.

Then there's improving the damping which has been covered elsewhere on the forum.

Any bike built to a budget will benefit a lot from suspender work and it doesn't have to be big bikkies.

greatescape 08-09-15 20:15
Thanks Pleiades, sound advice as ever! . Steve

Richlybow 17-11-15 19:01
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleiades (Post 214108)
It will have. Somewhere mid-way through 2012 the internals switched to KYB and with it came short progressive springs and much longer spacers than before. It's easy to tell the bikes with KYB internals as they have the raised adjusters on the fork tops.
I have a (bought new) 2014 ten but it has recessed Allen key adjusters on the fork tops. Does that mean it's a pre 2012 model then??:tongue9:

keithy2 17-11-15 20:23
ten suspension
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richlybow (Post 216081)
I have a (bought new) 2014 ten but it has recessed Allen key adjusters on the fork tops. Does that mean it's a pre 2012 model then??:tongue9:
You may well have, my ten was bought new sept 2014 but the serial number says it is a 2013 model. Mine has the raised fork adjusters and the springing is strong definitely not soft and sagging after 10000 miles. I wiegh 250+ ibs and go off road so it gets some stick. I very recently sat on a early 2008 ten and found the seat and suspension much softer than mine even though it had only done 15000 miles from new it was totaly stock. The owner sat on mine and had a good bounce and agreed with me it was much firmer and said "it feels like it has progressive springs in it".

Richlybow 17-11-15 21:09
Quote:
Originally Posted by keithy2 (Post 216082)
You may well have, my ten was bought new sept 2014 but the serial number says it is a 2013 model. Mine has the raised fork adjusters and the springing is strong definitely not soft and sagging after 10000 miles. I wiegh 250+ ibs and go off road so it gets some stick. I very recently sat on a early 2008 ten and found the seat and suspension much softer than mine even though it had only done 15000 miles from new it was totaly stock. The owner sat on mine and had a good bounce and agreed with me it was much firmer and said "it feels like it has progressive springs in it".
Well that's proper pissed me off....

Pleiades 17-11-15 21:49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richlybow (Post 216081)
I have a (bought new) 2014 ten but it has recessed Allen key adjusters on the fork tops. Does that mean it's a pre 2012 model then??:tongue9:
Your bike is almost certainly a 2012 or earlier model. 2012 was a cross-over year and early bikes came with Paioli internals (linear springs, short spacers and recessed allen key adjusters) and later ones with Kayaba internals (shorter progressive spring, long spacer and raised screw and locknut adjusters). The change more or less coincided with production moving from the Derbi plant in Spain to the MBK plant in France. Check your VIN plate and see where it was made (2008/2009 Italy, 2010 to mid-2012 Spain, 2012> France).

After very good XTZ sales in 2008 and 2009 (it sold out completely in 2008), things took a dive when the recession really kicked in. Dealers overstocked with 2010/2011 bikes because they over-estimated sales thinking that it would carry on being as popular. These (mostly unregistered) bikes have been slowly drip-fed out on to the showroom floors over the subsequent four years.

If you PM me the VIN number and engine number I can probably find the build date for you. (Don't post it in the open forum here.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by keithy2 (Post 216082)
The owner sat on mine and had a good bounce and agreed with me it was much firmer and said "it feels like it has progressive springs in it".
That's because it does! ;)

Richlybow 18-11-15 08:05
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleiades (Post 216084)
Your bike is almost certainly a 2012 or earlier model. 2012 was a cross-over year and early bikes came with Paioli internals (linear springs, short spacers and recessed allen key adjusters) and later ones with Kayaba internals (shorter progressive spring, long spacer and raised screw and locknut adjusters). The change more or less coincided with production moving from the Derbi plant in Spain to the MBK plant in France. Check your VIN plate and see where it was made (2008/2009 Italy, 2010 to mid-2012 Spain, 2012> France).

After very good XTZ sales in 2008 and 2009 (it sold out completely in 2008), things took a dive when the recession really kicked in. Dealers overstocked with 2010/2011 bikes because they over-estimated sales thinking that it would carry on being as popular. These (mostly unregistered) bikes have been slowly drip-fed out on to the showroom floors over the subsequent four years.

If you PM me the VIN number and engine number I can probably find the build date for you. (Don't post it in the open forum here.)



That's because it does! ;)
Thanks for that I'll have a look later. It's a bit naughty selling old production as new don't you think? Luckily it hasn't changed much over the years but somehow I feel duped....

Richlybow 19-11-15 09:31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleiades (Post 216084)
Your bike is almost certainly a 2012 or earlier model. 2012 was a cross-over year and early bikes came with Paioli internals (linear springs, short spacers and recessed allen key adjusters) and later ones with Kayaba internals (shorter progressive spring, long spacer and raised screw and locknut adjusters). The change more or less coincided with production moving from the Derbi plant in Spain to the MBK plant in France. Check your VIN plate and see where it was made (2008/2009 Italy, 2010 to mid-2012 Spain, 2012> France).

After very good XTZ sales in 2008 and 2009 (it sold out completely in 2008), things took a dive when the recession really kicked in. Dealers overstocked with 2010/2011 bikes because they over-estimated sales thinking that it would carry on being as popular. These (mostly unregistered) bikes have been slowly drip-fed out on to the showroom floors over the subsequent four years.

If you PM me the VIN number and engine number I can probably find the build date for you. (Don't post it in the open forum here.)



That's because it does! ;)
Thanks for the info Pete.....just out of interest, why did they move production around? Was it just financial or was there some other reason?

Pleiades 19-11-15 09:48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richlybow (Post 216113)
why did they move production around? Was it just financial or was there some other reason?
Government incentives, it's as simple as that.

The Spanish government was desperate in 2009 to get foreign investment after the 2008 crash and create jobs, so offered incentives for Yamaha to build certain models at it's own ailing Derbi plant from 2010. In 2012 the deal either expired, or the Spanish couldn't afford to subsidise production/offer the same incentive anymore as the euro-crisis bit deep, so in steps the French government. They obviously offered a sweetener Yamaha couldn't refuse, so production moved to the MBK plant in Saint-Quentin. Both Derbi and MBK are wholly owned subsidiaries of Yamaha.

The reasons are similar to why Google is in Ireland, Honda in Swindon, Toyota in Derby and Nissan in Sunderland etc. None would be where they are without government tax and/or other incentives.

Richlybow 19-11-15 10:04
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleiades (Post 216114)
Government incentives, it's as simple as that.

The Spanish government was desperate in 2009 to get foreign investment after the 2008 crash and create jobs, so offered incentives for Yamaha to build certain models at it's own ailing Derbi plant from 2010. In 2012 the deal either expired, or the Spanish couldn't afford to subsidise production/offer the same incentive anymore as the euro-crisis bit deep, so in steps the French government. They obviously offered a sweetener Yamaha couldn't refuse, so production moved to the MBK plant in Saint-Quentin. Both Derbi and MBK are wholly owned subsidiaries of Yamaha.

The reasons are similar to why Google is in Ireland, Honda in Swindon, Toyota in Derby and Nissan in Sunderland etc. None would be where they are without government tax and/or other incentives.
Interesting thanks......can't help with build consistency...:YouRock:


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