Rusty spokes on 7k bike!
 

Well I loked at my bike to day and thought as it was still under warranty I wasnt happy the spokes had gone rusty on a 7k milage bike so I contacted Yamaha and exchanged emails. Sat I rode to the bike shop who took photos and will put in a warranty claim for 2 new wheels. Sure they may well end up looking the same after another 7k but I hope not.

Hopefully I will get new wheels mid week...... not a good finish on the spokes really for a bike only 18 months old. My old XT 250 never had any spoke issues

Did they say they would do anything about the spokes? As i moaned about the annodising coming off my side cases and they said they didnt warrantee they as it was sold as an offroad bike? Not happy:013:
Crusty

The dealer agreed with me it wasnt good enough and have put in a claim so I will find out mid week for sure.

I wouldnt accept "offroad bike" as an excuse for anything as if thats the case I expect it to have alot tougher finish on the side cases. Was it the dealer or Yamaha that said that.?

Im not 100% sure I will get the wheels but prepared to go as long as it takes and right to the top until its sorted out.

It�s a strange thang with them spokes: some bikes got rusty spokes, some don't? Mine doesn't have rusty spokes, although it did 46.000km 'till today and also bad weather ridin', including salty roads during the winter, so......? Hope ya can sort it out with your dealer/Yamaha.
Greetz, Hans.

The law (here in the UK) clearly states that goods have to be sutiable for purpose and sufficiently durable. If your dealer is saying it's "for an off road bike" then the reality is that they are saying the bike is suitable for off-road use, then it must be sufficiently durable for that purpose.

OK, here's where it gets messy....

Yamaha UK offer a warrenty, and you might think this is great, but the reality is warrenties are only there to get the dealers to sell the bikes. Why?? because when you purchase anything from a retailer (someone who is in the business of selling goods or sevices) then the 'contract of sale' is between you and the retailer, you have no legal claim against Yamaha - so Yamaha offer warrenty to relieve the dealer of any real impact.

Now, here's the killer, goods (or services) must be 'sufficiently durable', so how long does this last ? well it's not written in stone, but past cases have used the 6 year mark as a precedent, so (if it ever got this far) a judge would be inclined to accept this as a period of durability.

Clearly there is protection for the retailer in the Act, you must have used the good in accordance with any manufacturers instructions, kept is sufficienlty maintained that sort of thing.

Now, lots of this is down to interpritation. So, the case covering is coming away. Annodising is a process of aloowing the Alluminium to corrode then sealing the corrosion to the alluminium, so it is a chemical bond. Chemical bonds do not fall apart. In this case it is very clear that the goods are faulty, and faullty from the manufacturing process, so the retailer has no defence. If the cases have been damaged then they might use this as a 'get-out', but as the process is a chemical one, they still have no defence. However, if they accept that the covering is paint, then the damage would effect the outcome of your claim. It's not always clear, and you have to be a realy pedantic about how you present your claim.

The act also states that the goods or services must be 'as described' so if the retailer say's to you "these cases are annodised" then the law considers them to be annodised, if they turn out to be painted, then the retailer has broken the contract of sale (and in some cases may have committed fraud), so you are entitled to return the case for a full refund.

The Act I speak of is the 'Sale of Goods Act 1979 as amended' There are lots of websites offering information on this. comsumerdirect.gov.uk has some advice on this link ->

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/aft...nowyourrights/


Often armed with the information on your right, when a dealer knows you know your rights (the use of the 'as amended' part is very important as it is a different act), they would not want to risk being nailed with this act and will fight Yamaha to replace this more robustly. After all the dealer has a contract with Yamaha in a similar way. They may even offer to do the work 'as a good will gesture', if it makes tham feel better then who cares?

Rusty Spokes,,,, this is a bit more tricky. But the application of the Act is the same. The dealer might argue that rust on the spokes does not detract from the opperation of the bike. So it comes down to the reason you purchased it (and if you told the dealer this at the time of sale). If you were told the bikes is of good quality, then it is fair to assume it will remain in a showroom condition so long as you have maintained it according to the manufacturers instructions, subject to fair wear and tear of course.

You would be able to insist that the spokes are not 'sufficiently durable' in that after a number of years the integrity of the metal would be affected by the corrosion and would become a risk to the opperation of the wheel resulting in accident or injury.

You have asked for new wheel, but unfortunatly you have no rights to ask for this. You do have the rights to say 'I want this put right', if the dealer chooses to replace the wheel then that is his choice, not yours. It is more probably that they will replace the spokes.

People really should understand their rights under this Act. It is as important to understand what they are not, as much as what they are and any negotiations with the retailer should always be carried out in a manner that presents what rights you do have, avoiding the areas where you do not...

And more importantly, make all representations in writing and insist that anything from the dealer ( other than 'yes we will sort that') is written down. Don't be tempted to use hidden recording equipment either, it's not worth the chip it's saved on.

PS - My spokes have no rust, and they have covered 22k miles through two winters.

just washed my bike,which has 5k on the clock and is an X never been near dirt and am shocked to see they are a nice shade of Orange,my bike is in showroom condition, immaculate as it is washed every week,i have just ridden it through a fairly wet winter by our standards,3 months of intermittent showers,well we are the driest state in driest country in the driest continent in the world,am really disappointed by this i think I will have to take it down to the dealer and see what he says.

I cant see these as sufficiently durable,on the plus side if they turn anymore Orange they will match nicely with the gold rims.

I think you are washing it too much :D

The spokes on my Ten had surface corrosion on them within weeks of getting the bike.

It doesn�t matter what law or act is in place if a product isn�t acceptable then it�s simply that I don�t need to read loads of boring script. It isn�t acceptable to buy a car then 7k later the wheels corrode and I don�t know anyone who would accept it. My Tenere sits on a few stands at shows so its not a good advert for Yamaha with rusty spokes!....

I would keep emailing until the boxes are sorted and if no luck go the top of the company until it is. I had a similar problem with a mountain bike part when it failed and was told �It was not for off road use� despite it being for a mountain bike and extremely expensive. No luck with the UK dealer or importer so I wrote to the chairman in Japan. 2 weeks later a hand written letter from Japan and a signature from the Chairman instructing the importer to give me whatever I wish form the brochure immediately which they did. I wasn�t rude or offensive in any way but put my point and feelings across about the product made.

Maybe I�m just lucky and have a very good dealer

You are very welcome for the effort I put in to help you.

Thanks for posting the info up I do appreciate it and wasnt actually meant as a dig at anyone personally it was simply those acts are boring....

I appreciate the time it took to find and post it. :icon_biggrin: Ive spent years of being subjected to reading ,laws, acts, rights etc and you got to admit they do go on and on.:icon_biggrin:

Ok Yamaha have agreed to resolve the spokes issue and sent me a new set plus they are having them rebuilt. I have however found a wheel builder thats making me a set of stainless spokes and nipples which I am paying for but the dealer have built for me. A good result by Yamaha as Im happy with the hubs and rims etc so I will have a as new set but with stainless steel instead :coolsmiley:

Hey Mike � been trying to send you a PM, but I think your inbox is full or something. Off-topic but I was wondering what make the crash bars are on your Ten, and if you're happy with them. I've been looking at options as I'd prefer full bars rather than just a bash plate and bar set up like the adventure spec ones.

Anyway. Good news on the spokes, result!

Hello...im very pleased with them and hopefully wont have to test them but have that security. There Hepco and Becker ones whihc can be ordered from Motobins who then order them in for you but it only takes a few days

Thanks Mike. Much appreciated

Well the end result is superb! Yamaha offered to re-spoke the wheels and alos the bolts etc. I decided I wanted stainless steel spokes and nipples so when the new Yamaha spokes arrived I sent them away to be copied.

The spoke and wheel builder recommended slighty larger spokes thhan standard for the rear which I agreed. The wheels now have stainless steel spokes an nipples and as new in fact I would say even better.

The spokes and nipples cost me �125 then Yamaha paid the rest without any problems. Thanks Yamaha UK great trouble free warranty work. Ive not presonally had any issues with warranty work and not had to battle anything out.

Mike,
I have had the same problem with my 6 month old S10. I am awaiting a response from Yamaha as to whether they will replace mine. In the mean time I removed them all, cleaned them up with an electric wire brush and then coated them with clear laquer. Its a pretty good job but not quite as good as new.

Mine corroded at 4 months old due to being parked on the beach for a week in the Costa Brava and we had a 4 day tornado that sprayed everthing with sea salt and regardless of how many times I wax washed it and covered the bike up I wasted my time.

http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/k...d_P1000273.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/k...d_P1000267.jpg

I looked at getting stainless spokes and the cost was about �120 with the Yamaha ones costing �168.21 for both wheels.

I sourced my stailnless ones from here: http://www.central-wheel.co.uk/spokes/spokes.html Are yours from the same place ?

When you say Yamaha will rebuild them who exactly do you mean, the dealer, Yamaha UK or a third party wheel builder that Yamaha will pay ?

Fortunately, on the S10, the spokes can all be changed without taking the wheels off and having done it once I will likely do it myself again. I managed to get the alignment perfect after a couple of hours of tweeking.

The new XT250Z (not available in the UK) has an S10 style tubeless rear (only) wheel fitted. Do not be surprised if the 660 gets them soon.

Interesting read Ray and great they can be replaced easily. I got my spokes for the same place as you. Are the ones that have corroded in the picture stainless ones?

No, they are the crappy OEM zinc (I thnk) plated ones. Its sad when you consider that it is unlikely to cost much more to place stainless on as standard as BMW do.

Also, you did not say who changed/paid for the spokes to be changed.

my five cents worth
 

I think the problem is an electrolitic reaction between some metal in the brake pads or rotors and the gal on the spokes. My guess is, it is because the pads don't contain asbestos!

Look closely, it is always worse on the pad dust side than the clean side.

I think Yamaha need to go into the big room of mirrors and have a long hard look at themselves if they think a new bike should look like this within 12 months.

Going to stainless however isn't neccessarily going to fix the problem. A very light gold plating might fix it.

How are we going to do that then, would the cost be prohibitive and would it be durable enough ?

On my previous GSA, I drove to Scotland from Hertford and back (700 miles) during last Christmas' snow and salt and only the panniers suffered. It has stainless spokes.

Aside from that, my bike was clean when all this happened. I washed it before the sea salt storm hit (see my post ~17) and it was not touched for the duration aside from being cleaned again...

Or are we talking "unobtainium" style technology here ?

I agree for the cost why didnt they use SSteel. I paid for the spokes and nipples which cost �120 and then I dropped both wheels off to the local dealer. The local dealer had them collected and rebuilt however Yamaha UK paid for the rebuild so my total bill was 120. It was a warranty claim which inc new spokes, nipples and all bolts etc. When the spokes arrived I had my own ss ones made and the process was completed...hope that helps

well you could approach the problem two ways
 

Since the spokes on the s10 are apparently fairly easy to remove. Why not take one out, clean it again and take it to an electroplaters which will be able to apply a one micron coat of just about anything.

Or

Take a clean spoke to someone that "blues" gun barrels and get it nitrided.

After that, see which works best.

If you had a mate at any serious metalugical engineering place get them to use their gold coater for a test spoke.

WARNING: TWO DRUNKEN EXPERTS HAVE ASSESSED THIS ISSUE THE FOLLOWING MAY NOT BE FACTUAL TOMORROW IN THE LIGHT OF DAY

My mate Dave looked at my spokes he agrees with me, it is something to do with the dust from the brake pads. That could be because he was drinking my beer at the time however.

Can you get tubeless rear wheels and eliminate the spokes?