XT660Z Tenere swingarm upgrade / weight reduction
 

The 09 Tenere rear unsprung assembly is massively heavy, and when compared with XR650 or DR650 is way over the top.

Has anyone attempted to change the swingarm for something stock off another model in order to save unnecessary kilos (say WR, xt660R, earlier XT600 models or anything else)?

I'm aware of wheel improvements to save weight, but the swingarm needs attention too.

Thanks in advance.

G'day Tuscan
"over the top"...... is for strength!! for loaded up touring!!
But if you un-bolted the spring to feel this weight you mention... did you also remove the rear wheel to then compare the "true swingarm assembly" weight to something else?
I can't imagine how the hollow swingarm assembly on the tenere would be "so much" heavier than something similar that would be noticeable while riding anyway.
So far haven't seen anyone do a swingarm swap yet. but i'd imagine a WR swingarm would look a bit dodgy on the tenere IMO. (if it fits)

Tuscan i most certainly don't want to sound like im raining on your parade so please forgive me if it sounds so, but why is weight an issue? I see there are a few fella's on here that are looking at spending considerable cash on fairly major mods to shed minimal weight, that are probably never going to race anyway (each to their own i know....but!). If its to make the tenere more "enduro" worhty as this maybe your main form of riding then maybe an enduro bike may have been a better choice. This is why i kept my WR when i bought my tenere, because i knew that i would never be able to push the tenere to the limits that my WR can go no matter how many mods.

Anyway mate if you go through with the swing arm swap be sure to post pics as it would be interesting to see

Cheers
Reg.

Most of the XT's weight is in the motor.

I started to try to get some weight off my bike but it got to hard, I changed most of my 6mm & 8mm Bolts to Titanium Bolts.

Go on a diet and lose 10kg. Best power /weight ratio improvement anyone can do...and it only cost some determination,
GB

I agree with Kev - the engine is heavy, so is the full frame (no separate alloy seat-subframe), and so is the tank assembly on the Ten'... none of which you can do anything about really, without fundamentally changing the bike?

In fact the one thing I really like about the Tenere chassis is the cast swing-arm, as Regie suggests (and I have certainly found myself), it is massively strong and rigid, and a few grammes or even a kilo or two saved there won't make any difference to the bike - fit an Ohlins if you are worried about rear suspension performance x

In comparison, changing the wheels will make far more of a difference to the unsprung weight/suspension performance - there is some ratio (3:1 or something) that rotational mass has vs. static unsprung weight... the wheels you[might] feel, the swingarm, you almost certainly won't...

J xx

The 10kg personal weight loss I know about - thanks very much!!! I couldn't agree more.

I hate bikes being over built - hell the XR650 is just as robust and is 122kg dry (cf Tenere at 186kg ish). Looking at the exhaust, wheels, tail light etc. there is unnecessary weight all over the place. The lighter the bike the easier it is to ride further without gettingtired and the more likely the rider will be able to save a moment from becoming a full spill.

Now I haven't separated the shock / swingarm / wheel yet to see which is the main culprit, but the XT660R does just as well with a "standard" swingarm, and I wouldn't mind betting that it ain't as heavy as the Tenere unit. Happy to be proved wrong though. The wheels and shock are the obvious areas for improvement and I suspect that JMo you are right about the noticibality of any changes - Every gram helps though.

Sounds like the singarm hasn't come in for much attention yet by owners - so I'll have to do some more research.

What I'm after is a comfortable, light, long distance capable machine, and the Tenere has the alot of the boxes ticked already - just a few mods required that the factory should have done to make it a really stunning machine.

Cheers for the feedback.

Hey Tuscan - I'm all for modifying bikes as you know (you should see all the others I have, especially the latest one x) - but there comes a point when you are, as they say, p!ssing in the wind!

As Regie points out above, the Tenere has been build as an overland bike, not a desert racer - it is designed to carry a passenger and a lot more luggage than an XR650 could ever hope to... It is designed to ride day in and day out with little or no maintenance, and long service intervals... it has a full fairing and huge fuel tank as standard. A large battery, a huge comfy seat, cat equipped exhausts, twin front disc brakes, large headlight... oh and electric start of course!... hell I'm boring myself here... but you get the picture.

An XR650 with all that lot on would be far closer to the Tenere's all-up weight. (I know this as I had an XR650R which I built up to a similar specification, including an electric start kit) - sure it was a good 20Kg lighter than the Ten' but you get what I'm saying?

http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/r...e/DSCF0205.jpg

Seriously, changing the swingarm - unless you really don't like the look of it, or just want an engineering challenge - is just a waste of time and money.

The point of the Tenere is it is a very comfortable and capable off-road touring bike - it will never be an edgy 'hard enduro' with a few concessionary comforts... if that is what you want, go for a DR/XR and mod it, or perhaps a KTM690 or BMX X-Challenge (although with a large front tank and fairing kit, those will weigh about the same as the Ten' does anyway), spend a lot of money, and you still won't have a bike that is as comfortable on the highway as it is in the dirt...

Seriously, when you have ridden your Tenere over the same sort of of terrain as I have (apologies for the trumpet-blowing, but do have a look at a few of the photo threads) and you are telling me that the stock bike is not capable 'enough' to ride that sort of terrain... well...

J xx

ps. the XR certainly isn't as robust as the Ten - twice I had to have the rack assembly/subframe repaired when I was traveling in Morocco with all the sh!t in the photo above (I eventually ebay'd that bloody top-box!), and there is no way you could carry a passenger any distance on the XR...? I also had to change the oil every 1500 miles or less, otherwise it turned to water...

If you can get hold of an XT660R swingarm, it would be interesting to see if it is a direct swap (It may well be as I imagine the XTX and XTR share the same frame dimensions around the swingarm pivot area?).

However, remember the XTR swinger is steel, so the weight saving is going to be minimal I would think... I'm sure there was a good reason they fitted a similar [to the Tenere] cast alloy arm to the XTX, even if it was only rigidity - which is only going to be of benefit for a heavy and loaded 'travel' bike like the Tenere...

(Hell I'm sure I've written that exact same phrase before - probably on ADVrider x)

Jen xx

Hi Tuscan,
may I ask you why did you buy a Tenere? Obviously what you need is some sort of racing machine (like Husaberg, KTM etc) and not a long distance travel motobike.

Regards
Marcus

To be fair to Tuscan - I can see where he's coming from... sure the Tenere could have been built a bit lighter from the factory perhaps, but then it would have cost a lot more, and ultimately, would not be as 'bomb-proof' as the over engineering has proven to be?

I think I've shown [with my Rally bike project] where improvements to to overall ability of the machine can be made, if you wish to spend a significant amount of money... but none of which significantly reduced the weight, other than replacing the stock exhaust with a single Ti can... (5Kg saving btw.)

Ultimately, and for the same reason I left the stock side stand and headlight assembly, there is a law of diminishing returns when it comes to modding parts just to save a few grammes, when, as Kev pointed out initially, a large proportion of the weight comes from the engine assemble itself, followed by the frame and tank/bodywork...

You could machine the hell out of various components, replace everything with alloy or titanium, and still be left with a pretty heavy bike (for info, Thorsten at OTR reckons with all his mods and a fibreglass tank, his Rally XT660R still weighs 165Kg) - but on the other hand, the weight [or rather substantial nature] of the Tenere moreoften works in it's favour...

I'd say get on it and ride the arse off it!

J xx

Bet that wheelied well JMo ^ :D

Hee hee - oh yes... (and it didn't even need the luggage x)

http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/r...djean004_2.jpg

J xx

nice one JMo :023: yeah keep the cash for spending on trips away.

G'day Tuscan,
Another thought i had was... I have come to notice when doing high speed transit sections on my WR @ 100kms/hr on open plains with strong winds, i get blown all over the road.. sometimes quite dangerously onto the wrong side of the road, but with the tenere in that same situation it sits alot safer on the road because of its extra weight. So ya see where in one area you might improve a bike to do one job better, it may have an adverse effect in another way, therefore stuffing-up the balance of having a dual sport bike. (i know swapping a swing arm aint going to upset the apple-cart that much, but uno what i mean.)

My dream bike would have been "if yammy made it" is a WR450R then mod it with a large tank and a rally fairing, but even with this I can still see short falls as a DS bike. The maintenance intervals would be sorted but loading it up with some gear would prevent hacking through the bush anyway. Gearing it for tight enduro riding would suck doing high speeds on the open roads. Also at high speed getting blown arround "with a lighter bike" would get tiring.

ADV riding & Enduro riding require 2 different mind sets... otherwise you'll just end up in hospital :081:

Anyway mate just some more fodder for ya!

Cheers
Reg.

Hey I don't think we should slate the guy/girl just because they are looking at making some changes I got the impression they were just checking things out a bit.

I kinda like my Tenere more and more each day one day maybe as much as my little TTR (that bikes got soul)

I am getting used to the fact that it aint no lightweight and needs to be ridden in a different manner to an enduro bike.

You need to be smooth and plan your lines more and always have an exit/escape route something you just take for granted on a smaller lighter bike.

I would like it if it was a bit thinner at the front end as I find the seat tank slighty too wide. and hey if it could loose a few pounds then all the better but then that goes for most of us.

From Jmo and others threads I think some of the best mods must be sort the supsension out - be it new springs or a wr 400 front end and modded/new rear shock.

If you can afford to fit better wheels then better still 18/21

junk the twin pipes for a single system for more pop and a good weight gain.

I think the Ten gives people a great bike anyway but also I see mine as a long term project of tinkering and perfecting. My budget is small so most of my mods will be home made or second hand.

Plus don't forget one of the best and cheapest mods the ebay footpegs

I don't think anyone is slating the Fella, its more just offering feedback on his thoughts/idea. If he want's to do it... he'll do it!! and we would read with great interest in his findings.

cheers

And the tenere swingarm isn't over-engineered, in fact, you can even break it:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4051/...36f83e3b40.jpg
This guys chain broke in Benin and cracked open the swingarm, he then had to wait for a new one from England.
Read about his trip:
http://africabymoto.blogspot.com/

Still looks alright to me... chain is a bit fecked though!

J x

Well well well - I seem to have stirred some emotions here. Good on ya.

As I said - I just like a light bike which isn't over-engineered. The Tenere fits the bill superbly for my type of riding, but as I said the less the bike weighs (within reason of course), the more able you are to save that moment becoming a full spill and possible injury. I ain't a Chris Birch, and I have normal ability on a machine and am looking to maximse my chances when things go pear shaped for whatever reason. All your other points are entirely valid so no beef there.

As an engineer, I am aware of the difference between the design point at which something fails and the "factor of safety" that is built in to a component for various reasons, and in the Tenere's case there are more than a few examples of where IMHO I think things have gone too far (see my earlier comments) (and others where thay didn't go far enough - footpegs too narrow, rear brake pedal not of the folding type, seat a pain in the ar!e.........). That's just me.

The Tenere is a superb machine, and having just toured the length of NZ with fully loaded (25kgs each side) Givi G35 panniers and more, I can safely say that the only problems I had were...
Seat comfort, footpeg lack of width and ride height (for me only when getting on and off - fine on the move). So in my books that's pretty damn good especially riding position, fuel economy, power, road presence etc.etc...

I have to say though one other area is really annoying - I bought the bike new and it required a part to be replaced under warranty (the plastic moulding at the very back of the tail piece above the tail light where the two donward facing studs had been sheared off by someone when fitting the pannier frames I guess). Well it's been 11 weeks and Yamaha NZ have still not been able to replace this. God forbid if this had been an important part that was preventing the bike being ridden!!!!!!!!! Parts support is an important factor when touring and I hope this is an isolated incident - would be interested in other experiences here??????????

As JMo says - get out and ride the damn thing.

Keep that spirited feedback coming:violence:

Hi again!

I'd only say that weight is a factor to a degree (and only really during slow speed work over technical terrain) - the particular thing I was impressed with regarding the stock Tenere was it's stability on lose surfaces at speed - it really is very forgiving, and the geometry very stable... and as Regie suggests above - I imagine the weight is actually a contributory factor in such instances*? Having [almost] got it out of shape on a number of occasions, I'd say you'd really have to be way out of control before it ever spat you off! Many times the bike saved itself even if the [stock] suspension had bottomed out etc. which again is one of the reasons I thought it would make a good rally bike...

* That is not to say that a lighter bike with well set-up suspension isn't very stable too, only that the Tenere uses it's weight to an advantage?




Funny you should mention that - I had the same problem! One of those little bolts sheared off when I replaced the end cap after chopping the tail and mess around with the lights... I guess they are not essential, unless you are using the Yamaha top-box that connects to the lug there? And fortunately I didn't have to wait quite as long as you for the replacement...

You bet!

J xx

Well a heavier bike will be less inclined to accelerate in any given direction, so it is probably less prone to being thrown off course in such situations - and it will probably maintain it's attitude (and hence steering geometry) a bit better.

I'd also hypothesise that the ratio of sprung to unsprung mass comes into play - although it's been mentioned that the OE wheels on the Tenere are pretty heavy, I'd bet that they are still a much smaller proportion of the overall weight than they are on a 120kg enduro bike. So the heavier bike will 'bully' the wheels and suspension into submission - bad for the suspension, but good for ride and stability. With that in mind, I'd be unsurprised that your rally bike - with lighter wheels, suspension that can deal with the pummelling, but still most of the weight of the stock bike up top - is even better at speed.

hi to add my 2p's worth

i removed the swingarm to grease and i had a small mod to carry out so after cleaning it, it weigh-in at 5.8kg which including bearings and chain slipper so even if you can halve that not a lot of an advantage. better to start with the wheels and exhaust

over the years racing enduro i have found its better to finish well than dnf due to a component failure. for example the gasgas had a very weak ali subframe which would break easily, readily sorted by fitting the slightly heavier steel unit. preventative is good i say

Stoic Bloke - that makes a lot of sense. Good info on the swing arm weight. Thanks

How about does the XTZ660 swingarm fit a XTR or XTX, they have the same wheel all most.

@tucan: An old XT-travelling-guy brought it to a point:
If you wanne reduce weight on your bike - the easiest and most effective way by nearly every driver is his own weight.

You can easy lose 3-4 Kilos (by the even needed training) before a great tour - that's even more - without any risk - than you'll get out a half-optimized bike.

cheers and a nice summer-season

Andy